deflating a wing

[Anfeust]

Hey all,

I've just been out this week-end to try the DIR-like config, with doubles, bp and wing (75lbs), long hose and all. Being a real newbee with that gear (first time with doubles AND bp/wing), i have to admit that the first dive was quite unpleasant, with lots of air shifting and balance problem. After the 4th dive (and having gone through a too loose crotch strap to a REALLY overtight one --ouch-- and back), thing got better with the balance. There was only one thing i really still had trouble with: the deflator. I really had the feeling that it sometimes worked and sometimes just sat there doing nothing, even with in more upright position. Not that good for self-confidence when ascending to a deco-stop.
Being used to "normal" jackets, i have a tendancy to raise the left shoulder and purge... now with the valve at the center of the wing makes this a no no.
So basically, my question to the wing gurus is that: is there a trick to use the deflator? what should ur body position be? should the mouth of the deflator higher than the valve? in the end i always used the back dump, but i find the control to be less precise than with the deflator.

I don't know if it's a common problem for beginners, but i'd like to hear from ppl and hopefully get some advice.

Thanks a bunch,



-Anfeust

 

[Reinoud]

So basically, my question to the wing gurus is that: is there a trick to use the deflator? what should ur body position be? should the mouth of the deflator higher than the valve? in the end i always used the back dump, but i find the control to be less precise than with the deflator.

That is about the correct answer. You usually only use the deflator when you are floating upright at the surface. Underwater you should always be trimmed horizontally. The logical solution to keep this position is to use the rear dump. Sometimes you might have to lower your head a little to push the air to the bottom of the wing.

The precision is just a matter of practice. Try to remain neutral at all times so you do not have to loose a lot of air, and do it in small bursts.
Lots of people will suggest you to take a DIR-F class as well, but I think you will want to get familiar with your gear first. And then learn how you can use it even better ";-)

 

[Boogie711]

Just what wing are you using that's 75 lbs? And is that possibly far too much wing for you? If so, it may be trapping air amongst the loose material and you may be riding an air 'bubble.

 

[MHK]

Lots of people will suggest you to take a DIR-F class as well, but I think you will want to get familiar with your gear first. And then learn how you can use it even better ";-)

Since I've was intimately involved in setting up the DIR-F class, and I have witnessed the evolution of this class nearly since inception, I'd offer a different point of view on the suggestion to "wait" until you get familiar with the gear 'before" taking the DIR-F class. The class is called Fundamental for a reason, meaning that the very purpose of the class is to learn the "fundamentals" of DIR diving, which includes using a BP & wing. Since we've gone from a workshop based format to a pass/fail format all too many diver's are fixating on the wrong things. If you are suggesting that someone "practice" before taking the DIR-F class in the hopes of passing the class, then I suspect we need to do a better job educating divers about the purpose and intent of the class. The pass/fail part of the class is virtually meaningless, unless you want to go on to future GUE training. Absent that desire, the pass -v- fail component of the class means nothing. The true purpose of the class is so that divers learn first hand the "fundamental" basics. While we realiize the industry has promulgated a pavlovian dog approach of rewarding divers with c-cards as a testiment to their class, we are trying hard to change that mind-set.

I hope you'll consider these comments and understand that we are trying desperatly hard to get divers to understand that this class has little, if anything, to do with the need for a c-card that certifies you to do absolutely nothing, all it does is provide some small assurance that should you sign up for an upper-level GUE class, ie; cave, tech and/or rebreather that the student had some fundamental training experience with GUE and there is less likely the chance that the student will show up in cave country and not have ever dove BP, wings, long hose etc. etc., and can more effectively concentrate their efforts on the underlying upper-level class

Hope that helps.

Regards,

Michael Kane

 

[Anfeust]

Just what wing are you using that's 75 lbs? And is that possibly far too much wing for you? If so, it may be trapping air amongst the loose material and you may be riding an air 'bubble.

I was using a halcyon wing (explorer i reckon, with the older inflator/deflater with the plastic red buttons), with twin steel 95 CF (can't remember the make, but it was a scubapro, so i probably pressed steel or maybe faber). Speaking of which, i was always banging my head on the manyfold when trying to look up. I guess it has to be that way in order to be able to reach the valves, but i did find it to be a tad uncomfortable even when looking straight ahead.
Given that we didn't have stages, i guess that the wing might have been too big for optimal buoyancy...

any thoughts?

thanks!

-Anfeust

 

[Reinoud]

Since we've gone from a workshop based format to a pass/fail format all too many diver's are fixating on the wrong things. If you are suggesting that someone "practice" before taking the DIR-F class in the hopes of passing the class, then I suspect we need to do a better job educating divers about the purpose and intent of the class.

No that was not what I was trying to suggest. I meant that I found it usefull to have made some dives with my wing before I started my DIR-F. Not to "train" for the skills, but more to know how it feels under water and get familiar with it.
If I would have started my DIR-F with gear I had never dived before I suspect that the first dives would be more about learning my new gear than to be able to concentrate on the skills and buddy awareness. I had enough on my mind already!
I agree with you that it does not make much sens to train skills you have not learned yet.
The one thing I learned from DIR-F is that there is still much to learn, and it is better to take small steps at a time, but take them properly.

 

[Spectre]

A 75 lb wing is -way- bigger than you need. That would explain the shifting of gas and the trouble getting it to a dump point. You should be at -most- in a 55, if not something smaller with double 95s.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

If I would have started my DIR-F with gear I had never dived before I suspect that the first dives would be more about learning my new gear than to be able to concentrate on the skills and buddy awareness. I had enough on my mind already!

I have to agree. I took my DIR-F class in a rig I'd never dived before ... and spent way too much time and effort fiddling with (or fighting with) the rig. I think, in retrospect, that this reduced my ability to put my best effort into the course curriculum.

For me it wasn't an issue of "passing" (although I would like to take additional classes at some point) so much as it was about wanting to put my best effort into the learning experience. Having to get used to the rig while trying to learn the skills was just frustrating.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)