Debate: Standard BP or Custom BP

[oceancrest67]

I posted an earlier thread referencing sizing and custom BP's. I have done some research on all the main online sites for OMS, DiveRite and Halcyon. I have also checked out DeepSeaSupply and other custom shops.

I am getting conflicting advice on what the right path might be...at 6'4" tall I am torn between the advocates of a standard only BP and other divers telling me that a custom plate is the way to go. Is it a marketing ploy by DiveRite, Halcyon and others? These manufacturers downplay custom plates as being non-standard, unsafe and not uniform. They say a standard plate ought to work and that adjustments can be made via the webbing for taller or bigger divers.

Any divers out there that have gone through the standard plate sizing and then moved on to a custom plate? What were the reasons for the switch and were there any difficulties making the switch in terms of configuration etc.

Thank you for any advice.

 

[boomx5]

I have seen divers taller than you wear a standard plate and it works just fine. I have also seen divers a lot smaller than you (4'11") wear a standard plate and it also works just fine. However, if you have a plate that is an extra inch or two in either direction and it fits "better", than I don't know what the problem is, and I don't think there should be a debate about it. IMHO, I plate that is a bit bigger or smaller is not going to make a person a better, or a more unsafe diver.

 

[Boogie711]

I'm 6'4" as well, and I wear a standard plate without issue.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Is it a marketing ploy by DiveRite, Halcyon and others? These manufacturers downplay custom plates as being non-standard, unsafe and not uniform. They say a standard plate ought to work and that adjustments can be made via the webbing for taller or bigger divers.

I find this position, i.e. that only a "Standard Plate" is safe, laughable. Tell me what is standard between a Halcyon, DR, and OMS plate?

Is the overall outline shape "standard" among these three?

Is the bend angle "standard" among these three?

Is the depth of the center channel "standard" among these three?

Is the size and location of the perimeter holes "standard" among these three?

Do all three even have slots for cam bands? Are they all in the same "standard" location?

You weren't specific about who claimed what, and I don't want to defame anybody, but your post lends one to believe that each plate brand, by implication, thinks only their plate is "standard" and therefore safe. Who sets this "Standard" and which plate s safest? (My guess would be the one they have in stock)

About the only thing "Standard" amoung Backplates is the presense of at least one pair of holes at 11" centers in the center channel. Even here there is substantial variation. Some have 2 sets of holes, Some have 5/16" holes, others have 3/8" holes, some have holes at the top, and slots at the bottom, some do not.

It is true that the one size offered by most plate manufacturers can be made to work with quite a wide range of individuals, sizing plates is not like fitting a Drysuit, but there are limits. Take this to the extreme. Would a plate that fits somebody 6'5" be ideal on a somebody 5' tall?

Mass produced plates are made by stamping. Stamping is fast, accurate, and very low cost........after one pays for the stamping dies.

To produce a BP, one needs two stamping dies, a "blanking die" this makes the basic outline, and a "Piercing Die" this punches all the holes and slots.

A pair of these precision, hardened tool steel dies can easily run $30,000. This is why most plate manufacturers offer only one size. They pick a size that best fits the majority of the market, i.e. young fit males, in the 80th percentile for height and weight.

By comparison I make plates by Abrasive water jet cutting. The shape of the plate is a function of a computer program, not a "hard tool" AWJ is a much more expensive process than stamping, but because little or no tooling is necessary, small runs of "Nonstandard" plates are possible.

I would never claim a AWJ cut plate is necessarily superior to a stamped plate. Either method can produce a good quality plate, but I know for a fact that people on either end of the size range are more comfortable in a nonstandard plate.


Regards,



Tobin

 

[oceancrest67]

I find this position, i.e. that only a "Standard Plate" is safe, laughable. Tell me what is standard between a Halcyon, DR, and OMS plate?

Is the overall outline shape "standard" among these three?

Is the bend angle "standard" among these three?

Is the depth of the center channel "standard" among these three?

Is the size and location of the perimeter holes "standard" among these three?

Do all three even have slots for cam bands? Are they all in the same "standard" location?

You weren't specific about who claimed what, and I don't want to defame anybody, but your post lends one to believe that each plate brand, by implication, thinks only their plate is "standard" and therefore safe. Who sets this "Standard" and which plate s safest? (My guess would be the one they have in stock)

About the only thing "Standard" amoung Backplates is the presense of at least one pair of holes at 11" centers in the center channel. Even here there is substantial variation. Some have 2 sets of holes, Some have 5/16" holes, others have 3/8" holes, some have holes at the top, and slots at the bottom, some do not.

It is true that the one size offered by most plate manufacturers can be made to work with quite a wide range of individuals, sizing plates is not like fitting a Drysuit, but there are limits. Take this to the extreme. Would a plate that fits somebody 6'5" be ideal on a somebody 5' tall?

Mass produced plates are made by stamping. Stamping is fast, accurate, and very low cost........after one pays for the stamping dies.

To produce a BP, one needs two stamping dies, a "blanking die" this makes the basic outline, and a "Piercing Die" this punches all the holes and slots.

A pair of these precision, hardened tool steel dies can easily run $30,000. This is why most plate manufacturers offer only one size. They pick a size that best fits the majority of the market, i.e. young fit males, in the 80th percentile for height and weight.

By comparison I make plates by Abrasive water jet cutting. The shape of the plate is a function of a computer program, not a "hard tool" AWJ is a much more expensive process than stamping, but because little or no tooling is necessary, small runs of "Nonstandard" plates are possible.

I would never claim a AWJ cut plate is necessarily superior to a stamped plate. Either method can produce a good quality plate, but I know for a fact that people on either end of the size range are more comfortable in a nonstandard plate.


Regards,



Tobin

Tobin:

You pointed out your DSS site in an earlier thread I posted. Thank you for your input. I was not specific about who said what because I did not want to start a lengthy run of replies. I will say that I did write an e-mail to one of the major suppliers and their response ran along the lines of safe, proper gear set up and configuration...that a standard plate offers uniformity among a group of divers...and that this uniformity and accessibility provides a higher degree of safety when diving...at least this is the way I understood it.

I do agree with your input in that it really does not matter between "standard" vs. a custom plate...what matters is the comfort and configuration of the individual diver...what works best as long as that plate fits most wings, most webbing, most tank straps, and / or most other accessories.

 

[pants!]

Gee I wonder which manufacturer that was.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Tobin:

You pointed out your DSS site in an earlier thread I posted. Thank you for your input. I was not specific about who said what because I did not want to start a lengthy run of replies. I will say that I did write an e-mail to one of the major suppliers and their response ran along the lines of safe, proper gear set up and configuration...that a standard plate offers uniformity among a group of divers...and that this uniformity and accessibility provides a higher degree of safety when diving...at least this is the way I understood it.

I do agree with your input in that it really does not matter between "standard" vs. a custom plate...what matters is the comfort and configuration of the individual diver...what works best as long as that plate fits most wings, most webbing, most tank straps, and / or most other accessories.

OC,

Sounds like you and I agree in most part. I too am not trying to start a fire storm,or beat a dead horse, I just find it funny that somebody is now claiming a Standard Plate is safe and by implication custom plates aren't.

I would guess that very few people will be in a good position to answer your real question, i.e. is a custom plate a real benefit to somebody 6'4"

Most people have used one of the "Standard" plates. And for most people, even those near the extreme ends of the range, they work OK.

Many fewer people have used both a "Standard" plate and a custom plate, this means the number of people able to render an opinion regarding both is pretty small. I'd love to hear from these folks, I can never have to much info on fit.

I have had on the other hand the experience of having test divers of various sizes try our different plates, and not too surprisingly, the big folks preferred the big plates, and the tiny folks like the small plates, and the rest were most happy in a medium.

Good luck with your gear selection, I applaud your efforts to get answers pre-purchase.


Tobin

 

[Hoosier]

OK Guys, just use our comon sense!

One size T-shirt can fit to almost everyone, but it isn't a perfect fit. Do you agree that?

My GF is only 5.2 Halcyon plate is ok with her. But, after trying Fred T's small size, it is just better fit without need to say.

You are the guys who have always advocated a comfort and right fit this board as an experienced divers. If then, how can one size fit to everyone?

 

[oceancrest67]

OC,

Sounds like you and I agree in most part. I too am not trying to start a fire storm,or beat a dead horse, I just find it funny that somebody is now claiming a Standard Plate is safe and by implication custom plates aren't.

I would guess that very few people will be in a good position to answer your real question, i.e. is a custom plate a real benefit to somebody 6'4"

Most people have used one of the "Standard" plates. And for most people, even those near the extreme ends of the range, they work OK.

Many fewer people have used both a "Standard" plate and a custom plate, this means the number of people able to render an opinion regarding both is pretty small. I'd love to hear from these folks, I can never have to much info on fit.

I have had on the other hand the experience of having test divers of various sizes try our different plates, and not too surprisingly, the big folks preferred the big plates, and the tiny folks like the small plates, and the rest were most happy in a medium.

Good luck with your gear selection, I applaud your efforts to get answers pre-purchase.


Tobin

Tobin:

My intentions were never to step on anyone's toes or to start up some sort of heavy handed discussion. My topic was not specifically aimed at anyone. My intent was to find differing perspectives. Sometimes the written word communicates differently from the spoken word.

I will say that as one progresses in diving...yes, even into the "technical" diving community...there still are differing methodologies among different certification agencies...under this light, gear selection can also seem a bit confusing. At this level of diving, I really do not want to spend my money unwisely. When you add product lines, sales, and marketing into the mix...the visibility drops. Just my opinion.

I have a good diver friend who will let me try out some of his older rigs to get a feel for them...and then from this I hope to round out my decisions.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Tobin:

My intentions were never to step on anyone's toes or to start up some sort of heavy handed discussion. My topic was not specifically aimed at anyone.

Me either......

My intent was to find differing perspectives. Sometimes the written word communicates differently from the spoken word.

Very true, the good old telephone still has it's place

I will say that as one progresses in diving...yes, even into the "technical" diving community...there still are differing methodologies among different certification agencies...under this light, gear selection can also seem a bit confusing. At this level of diving, I really do not want to spend my money unwisely. When you add product lines, sales, and marketing into the mix...the visibility drops. Just my opinion.

Spot on here also, I share your opinion

I have a good diver friend who will let me try out some of his older rigs to get a feel for them...and then from this I hope to round out my decisions.

That's great, too few have this opportunity.

Regards,


Tobin