DCS-panicky divers

[piikki]

If you are recreationally diving, your chances of getting bent are low. And if you do get bent you are likely to get fatigued first, followed by joint pain or skin bends long before you get type 2 DCS.

I can't believe that you would pull a reg out of someone's mouth rather than do a rapid ascent with them to the surface.

I'm prepared to blow off 20 mins of mandatory O2 deco at my 20 foot stop if my buddy toxes. I'm likely to take a type 1 hit to the joints and need to go to the recompression chamber, but I'm prepared to do that. If my buddy has a runaway inflator on deco I'm going after them, dragging them back down to depth and completing deco. Where it gets to the point where I'm not willing to risk DCS is if my buddy has a CVA at the end of a 240 fsw dive right before starting deco. I still need to do my deep stops and hand his body off to the support divers. I won't skip the deep stops on a significant dive.

Recreational divers should stop agonizing over pulling regs out of people's mouths -- exhale to the surface and go onto O2 and hit the chamber if you have any symptoms. Stop being so terrified of DCS that you'll kill someone else rather than running the slightest risk of DCS.

The quote is from thread http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=172175
Lamont’s post made me think. I do not know the degrees of DCS damage or frequency it happens when diving in rec limits too well. I always thought it is so much case-by-case, it’s kind of useless to predict much. However I never thought it is nearly impossible to get ‘badly bent’ in rec diving which is the opinion posited in the thread by many experienced divers. Now what can you tell me? Are people freaking out about nothing? Are they excessively worried?

The fear of getting bent does not factor in in my diving too much. Reading about incidents/accidents, I sometimes get the idea divers are getting bent all the time, when more often reading these cases makes me think how come no more divers get bent on regular basis based on what I was taught.

So how true is this statement that lamont makes in this post? How much are divers scared about getting bent and not doing something because of it? How often are they so badly mistaken, they’d rather withdraw from eg helping fellow diver fearing they’ll get truly hurt? How many divers think you only get bent one way (seriously, in an incapacitating degree).

Many of the bent-cases are just described as “needed a chamber ride”, no mention how bad the symptoms were, and how severe the final outcome (permanent damage, pain and discomfort). Maybe I am not worried enough, maybe I worry unnecessary. Are rec-divers generally panic-stricken or grossly mistaken about the chance of getting bent? Or do most ignore whole issue either because they do not know enough or because the know it’s such a minimal risk or what? I fall into the group that thinks the whole topic is so poorly understood and do not let it interfere with my divng much. I’d worry if I was involved in, say see-saw fast ascent after relatively long/deep dives though.

(The poll is just to stimulate discussion and refers to exceeding limits in the most common concerns like risking having to do CESA, staying at depth too long, blowing safety stops, ascending in undesirable manner.)

 

[Meng_Tze]

The thing is..... everyone is different and thats why we have recreational limits set where they are. By adding a significant amount of 'safelty' around the limits, we shield the occurance of DCS off.

Saying that, it IS possible to get some form of DCS in rec diving. This is because everyone is different. Even the same person can get DCS one one dive and not on the next, even when the profiles are the same. There is a lot to this which is possibly another thread.

But the occurance of severe DCS ( read: death, paralyzed etc) in rec diving is extremely rare. Not nil, but close to it.

So what can you get and should you be aware of in rec diving? It is easy to get minor symptoms like fatigue, soreness in joints, skin bends etc.

If you stay within rec limits and control your ascend within the limits... it is unlikely to get DCS. What are the safety margins? that depends on the tables/computer you dive with. Some are large, others less and all will have different outcomes with different individuals.

 

[beach89]

I dive safely, stay well within limits, and always watch my ascension rate. As long as I do that, I know that the chance of me getting bent is negligible. So I chose the option I think it’s nearly impossible to get seriously/irreversibly bent in rec-diving. I never worry about it.

 

[jpcpat]

Staying within rec limits is one way to minimize DCS risk. Staying inside them provides a safety factor, so I don't go outside them, or even push them hard. So I guess you could say that fear of DCS keeps me off dives that exceeed recreational limits.

That said, on a deep, cold current swept NJ wreck, I get very rigid about gas planning, ascent rates and safety stops. My safety stop is usually extended beyond the minimum by whatever my gas supply allows. On a 50ft Florida reef dive, I'm careful about ascent rates, but may do a rolling stop (the last 3-5 minutes is swimming back to the boat at15ft.)

 

[TSandM]

When we took our Rec 2 class from Joe Talavera, he made the point that people worry a lot about DCS, and not nearly enough about running out of gas.

Think about it! In your OW class, how much time did you spend on the tables? How much time did you spend doing calculations of your pressure group for repetitive dives? And how much time did you spend on gas management and gas planning?

Because of the tables and computers, DCS is pretty rare in recreational divers. (Not unknown -- I didn't say that -- but rare.) On the other hand, getting low on gas, or running out of gas, occurs frequently enough that there have been posts at least once a month since I've been on SB by somebody who either ran out or ran low enough to scare them.

The worry about the wrong things starts from the very beginning.

 

[Web Monkey]

The fear of getting bent does not factor in in my diving too much. Reading about incidents/accidents, I sometimes get the idea divers are getting bent all the time, when more often reading these cases makes me think how come no more divers get bent on regular basis based on what I was taught.

So how true is this statement that lamont makes in this post? How much are divers scared about getting bent and not doing something because of it? How often are they so badly mistaken, they’d rather withdraw from eg helping fellow diver fearing they’ll get truly hurt? How many divers think you only get bent one way (seriously, in an incapacitating degree).

The thread you mentioned is not just about "getting bent". It's also about "getting dead" I can deal with bent. That's what chambers are for. Dead is forever.

I'd go after my buddy and drag him back if I saw him crawling aound the bottom at 200', however that's also because I always have enough gas to get us back to the surface. OTOH, my buddy would have never made it past 130' even if it meant I had to grab his BC and drag him back kicking and screaming.

That changes the question to "Would I go after a stranger at 200'?" the answer is "it would depend on how much of a risk it was". If I'm at 80' breathing EAN36 and see someone at 200', they're probably on their own. If I have some sort of gas that won't kill me at that depth, I'd probably go get them.

However in the thread you referred to, nobody had a gas plan that allowed for any mistakes (or even a good dive with no mistakes), which changes the concept from "a minimal risk" (fetching your buddy with plenty of appropriate gas) to "Am I willing to risk almost certain death for my buddy?"

This was a horrible incident and at the very least, I hope it makes the Cert agencies change their curriculum to emphasize that if even if your intructor tells you to do something stupid, it's still stupid, and you shouldn't do it.

Also FWIW, the best way to handle an emergency is to not have one. With a buddy team, at least one of the buddies should have known this was a really dumb thing to do and kept the other buddy from going in.

This whole thing was a complete "Kick Darwin in the b****" contest from beginning to end, and I feel terrible for everybody involved, including the instructor, who I'm reasonably certain never intended to kill anybody.

Terry

 

[String]

"Bent" isn't always something a 6hr chamber ride will cure.

In not a small % of cases (think its 10% maybe higher) there is some permanent damage. This could range to anything from loss of sensation in a finger to death. In either case bent isn't a good thing and it stands a chance of leaving you with some sort of permanent damage.

I dont go for this recreational vs technical diving definition either. My original training agency is quite happy to teach deco etc as part of its normal courses.

As for does the fear of DCS control my actions on dives - yes !

Im far more concerned about it if im doing 30 minutes bottom time at 45m than 30 minutes at 10m depth. My entire approach,planning and execution changes.

Do i "worry" about it? You're aware of the increased risk and therefore take actions to keep that risk down such as planning and being really sure about your technique on that dive.

Im aware of the risk of it every dive but as the relative risk of it changes so do my actions. 10m dive im happy to slap a tank on my back, computer on my wrist, jump in, swim around and come up when my gauge says 50 bar.
45m dive with lots of mandatory deco i wont jump in without many more tanks, planning, proper deco schedule, specific run times, deco mixes and so on. All of that change is related to my awareness of a risk of being bent.

 

[Ice9]

I wouldn't call myself DCS-panicky, but I'm certainly not going to get in line to ride the Polaris Express to the surface either. I guess I'd say I have a healthy respect for DCS?

 

[PaulSmithTek]

Had a type 2 Hit while in Washington. Was in the can for treatment table 6. 5 hours 45 minutes with extended 02 periods. I have a respect for DCS, I wish I knew then what I know now. But I do not dwell on it I am more worried about running out of air, even though my consumption rate is low.

 

[piikki]

Also, I wonder if people with so called DCS risk factors worry more. Those older, chubbier or with pre-existing medical condition, for example. I sure have to say it hits home when I hear of joint-related consequences - because I am familiar with them, and I sure would not want to add to that list of "rest of your life" pains.