DC1400 vs RX100 vx G16, strobe questions, your thoughts requested please!

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Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
# of dives
50 - 99
hello

yet one more fledgling UW photographer here trying to sift through the chaff and get myself underway into this new obsession... ive read a heap now and have complete information overload; thought i would lay out my situation and see if anyone would care to offer some insight or experience that might help me on my way.

please let me know if you think my conclusions are off the mark.
im sorry in advance that im a cheap ass - ill be getting as much second hand as possible, id love to buy the best but just not going to work.

UW photography history:
a few weeks of dives with an intova HD (gopro style) camera, no strobe, handle or anything. some video came out ok, but not really interested in continuing video much. for stills got very poor results mostly (surprise, right) with the occasional 1 in 50 lucky pic that I can edit the nuts out of to look reasonable. i have a graphics background so the editing side im - if not amazingly skilled at - at least very comfortable with.

my starting goal:
im wanting to purchase a good value/budget camera system (camera, housing, tray, strobe) that i can take underwater on my next dive trips with my limited photography experience, with the primary intent of capturing some good close up stills without too much fuss.

my ongoing goal:
get improved results in macro and wide stills. if possible staying with a setup with ease of use. im sure this will change but at this point i want to be a diver who takes photos, not a photographer who dives. i can see myself adding some lenses, focus light, more strobes, other accessories etc try to get clear of auto settings; id like to generally increase my camera and lighting skills and hopefully this equates to better shots.

packages im looking at:

DC1400 setup with strobe.

ive seen some very nice results with this setup. i imagine the error rate is higher than with other setups, which starting out im ok with.
the apparent ease of use, all in one, auto strobe, it all sounds like its right up my alley to just get underwater, take some photos and have them not look like crap. slow focus sounds annoying but possibly workable, the general automatic/preset nature of the setup i accept may become annoying down the track... but if i can get reasonable results without too much fuss i would be comfortable.
the price is right; but im concerned about the limits of this setup for my ongoing goals.
a little concerned the camera itself is under par compared to others, i remain hopeful sealife might release a better more customisable camera with better sensor/specs in the future that i can stay with. if not and i go this route then hopefully DC1400 setup is enough to keep me happy for a while before i chuck it all and massively upgrade.

RX100 setup.

i see no reason to go for the Mk2 or 3, the Mk1 is great value and for my purposes i think would be perfect and would last the distance.
I cant afford a good housing, id be looking at one of the chinese plastic housings with its inherent issues (acceptable for me at this stage), a tray and a cheap strobe.
i love that this camera is very popular and in common use, and have seen many people get some truly amazing results with it.
im concerned i might not be able to get reasonable shots easily at the start (learning curve, no good auto settings), and i may need to spend too much time faffing about underwater with it when all i really want to do is see something, get in its face and capture it.

G15/16 setup.

have only recently started reading up on this one - the fantasea and G16 setup looks to be exceptional value, and ive read from a few sources that this setup is very good for macro stills with fast focus and good closeups.
not sure which strobe/arm/tray setup i should be looking at, and havent looked into results from others with this setup yet.
havent read enough about this setup yet to see if it would suit my goals, but the little ive read and the prices ive seen it looks very promising.

G15 camera quality vs the DC1400 seems similar? fantasea housing seems better quality than the chinese one id be getting for the RX100? which strobe/arm/tray to get, and does it talk to the camera easily? what other concerns? i need more reading on this but if you have any thoughts...


STROBE questions:

im still unsure how a strobe connects and works with the housing... i believe what i want is fibre optic strobe connecting to the housing.
does the internal camera flash need to fire to set off the strobe? or does the shutter button tell the strobe when to fire
i understand the [theoretical] problems with backscatter and shadows from the internal flash, and it seems logical to me to just turn the internal flash off, and have the camera tell the strobe when to fire automatically. is this possible and is this how it works?

i feel im missing something here if anyone could clarify my ignorance in regards to the above setups id be appreciative.

which cheap strobe would be best for my simple goals; and can i get it to easily talk to the RX100 or G16?

here the DC1400 carries weight, i believe it will talk to the camera easily and fire when its supposed to etc.. i believe ease of use should be very important to me at this stage.


thankyou if you read this far, and double thanks if you'd care to share any thought, no matter how small, that might get me on my way.

if its relevant i live in australia but mostly dive in asia, am a rescue diver almost at 100 dives in 2 years, I consider myself a competent diver if not a good one always looking to improve myself underwater. the next year will see me completing divemaster and possibly instructor, and going on a couple of months of diving trips to some great spots.

safe diving and happy snapping!


Troy
 
Don't get a SeaLife! Get a Canon, G15/16, or better yet Canon S110/120, which is pretty much the same, but more compact. Get a good housing, and at least one strobe. To get good shots, I strongly recommend you shoot manual; and shoot RAW, especially if you like to edit in post.

Get a high quality machined aluminum housing. Set your camera to manual mode, and set your onboard camera flash to fire at minimum power (to save camera battery). Your housing will have a strobe mask with two little holes that you use to plug in the fibre-optic connectors (for example the Sea&Sea connectors are common and easy to use). When your on-board flash fires, the light signal is transmitted to your strobe which then fires. The easiest way to control exposure with a compact camera is to vary strobe power.

I hope this helps, or at least gets you started in the right direction.
 
A few on the fly comments:

No idea about the DC1400.


I currently have the RX100 I and I used to have a G11 so that is my "history".
The Sony is a very unforgiving camera to use and not nearly as user friendly as the Canon. The G11 was really so easy to use.
BUT when you do manage to get it all right the pics are amazing!!

If you go the Sony route do get the RX100 II rather than the original. The II has far better focus speed. Nearly twice as good as the I. So for this reason alone it is worth it. I wish I had waited a bit longer for the II. Dont bother about the III.

As for Canon if I were you I would wait a few weeks and look at the new Canon G7X. It looks amazing and a direct competitor to the RX100, with the ONLY issue that I can see is the reduced battery life. Both the G16 & new G7X have a 24mm wide angle lens that messes with the wet wide angle lenses BUT Inon has made a lens that seems to work OK for the G16 so I'm assuming it would work with the G7X. And I'm assuming the G7X will have the same amazing macro ability as the G16 does.

All in all right now the RX100 II is the best, but if I were in your shoes I would give the G7X a really long look!
 
hello

G15 camera quality vs the DC1400 seems similar? fantasea housing seems better quality than the chinese one id be getting for the RX100? which strobe/arm/tray to get, and does it talk to the camera easily? what other concerns? i need more reading on this but if you have any thoughts...


Troy

First stay away from these Cheap Chinese housings I have had bad experiences and seen far to many from other divers, if you are going to go the more economically priced route go with the manufacturers housing.

I have posted a few posts about the G16 and different housings you can read them in the following threads and should find most of the information in regards to the G16 there, also the G15 is similar just no WIFI which I find is quite nice when I do not want to remove the camera from the housing

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/un...ular-housings-what-would-real-difference.html

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/un...ular-housings-what-would-real-difference.html

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/canon-corner/493163-advice-canon-g16-g1z-mark-ii.html

Optic strobes are the most common strobes around, Ikelite makes their own strobes with their own connectors and will require an optic slave to use them with housings that do not support their connectors.

The optics work off of the cameras flash so yes the cameras flash must be used to send the flash through the optic cord to the strobes internal sensor, some strobes offer a wireless set up that reads the strobes flash without use of the optic cord. Some strobes may not be compatible with certain cameras if the camera does not emit a pre-flash before the second primary flash but I have found this is only with some of the more compact point and shoot models.

As for the strobe you can find a nice Inon S2000, or Sea & Sea YS-01 for around 300-400 USD from what I have seen. You can get the Sea & Sea YS-02 cheaper but this does not support TTL features this means the camera will not meter the strobes pre flash, you must set all your strobe settings manually.

Set a good budget for your new venture and keep in mind this will become an expensive hobby and you will always end up wanting to be able to up grade in the future so choose wisely so you can easily upgrade as sometimes to upgrade may require more cash for example some of the cheaper plastic housings and mounting wet lenses.
 
I would go for the DC1400. Since you are neither an avid photographer nor does it seem like you are proficient enough to handle a large set of camera gear. Going overboard with gears usually make scuba diving less fun, unless you are really into photography.

A photographer that dives constantly look for things to photograph, while a diver that photographs likes to dive and take pictures of things they see. If you try to take pictures of tiny nudibranchs or go off shooting every picture with the camera/strobe in manual, you will be spending much of your time adjusting the settings, looking at the result of each shot, readjusting the setting, etc. You will be spending alot of time on a subject, while staying perfectly still, while the group goes off. A simple analogy would be like a topside photogropher trying to capture a sunset picture with a foreground subject. A non-photographer would take one or two pix and go back to drinking their cocktail. A photo enthusiast will constantly adjust the exposure setting, flash exposure setting to get the right balance, trying silhouette, etc, possibly taking 10-20 shots until the sun disappeared.
 
hi Troy

I've used all of those options, and based on your very particular requirements and comments, I can easily recommend the Fantasea G16 housing/camera combo for you. Good luck with your choice.

Scott Gietler
 
my ongoing goal:
get improved results in macro and wide stills.
macro or wide angle? pick one! Or both? Then think about other issues...like manual strobes...

You hopefully are aware that this is the topside dilemma of every DSLR photographer. Macro or wide angle? Pick one. You must choose before you splash. Lens and port combo is done topside. Before the dive. Sucks to have only 1 DSLR.

Compact cameras use of wet lens have allowed us to make this decision underwater. But there is no free lunch. DSLR macro is much better. DSLR wide angle is much better.

Compacts allow a compromise. But at a price. Most compacts are okay at both. Normally never great at both. Sometimes bad at one or the other.

I suggest that you decide what you want to focus on & then determine which camera best fits your needs.

I like macro and manual wired strobe control and this sways me towards the G16.
 
Troy

Had a DC1400 it was good however too slow to focus in lower light conditions although I could have put an LED light to help focus. Bought a used RX100 I and got a nice underwater case made by Meikon MK-GF2/MK-GF3. I kept the Sealife flash.

I loved the setup and about 800 dollars all in
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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