Cuda vs P1

[FIGJAM007]

Hi,

I have used a cuda 650 and it was great fun. From my research is seems the motor is rated to 1200 watts? I cannot seem to find the motor rating on the P1. To me it seems the Cuda should/could be faster and I like the idea of no belt. Speed is not everything to me but I would like it to be able to go fast when needed. With the smart DPV controller installed it is claimed a cuda can be as silent as a blacktip (apparently).

Does anyone have experience with the cuda and p1 side by side? traveling isn't really a big thing for me currently so the PTB in no real benefit. more run time and speed.

ideally buy a second hand cuda (650 ideally) install smart dpv controller and lithium pack...... thoughts or suggestions?

 

[moose_grunt]

Cuda 650 (even with NIMH) has longer run time than P1. It’s also a lot heavier. I think the usual comparison between Cuda and Piranha is Cuda 400 and P1. They use the same nimh battery (with the piranha travel tube).

From memory, the Cuda has a 36v motor; Piranha is 40v. The Cuda motor was also a lot bigger (physically) than the piranha if I remember correctly.

If the plan is to buy cheap and do a custom battery, Cuda’s probably better than Piranha. More people doing it for longer. There’s also a lot more room in the tube to work with than a P1.

Jim

 

[rjack321]

If you are planning on converting it, get a cuda 400 its the same motor (and yes 1000W) and you dont need a giant tube for a li-ion battery which is more than double the energy density of nimh. So you can easily have a 900-1100wh li ion battery in a cuda 400 tube

http://www.tahoebenchmark.com/pdfs/2011/BinderTBM2011v30.pdf

It doesnt really matter between the P1 and the Cuda which has a faster max speed, they are close enough and you can't actually use speed 8 for that long before everything starts to hurt anyway. 275ft/min is downright painful

 

[tbone1004]

it's a 1200w motor as an FYI per the motor manufacturer.

direct drive is nice, but it comes at the cost of weight of the motor. That translates to a longer tube to balance it out, and a higher cost to manufacture which is part of why the P1 and SS Minnus are belt driven. Super high RPM motors are much smaller and cheaper to make than comparable power low RPM motors.

 

[rjack321]

it's a 1200w motor as an FYI per the motor manufacturer.

direct drive is nice, but it comes at the cost of weight of the motor. That translates to a longer tube to balance it out, and a higher cost to manufacture which is part of why the P1 and SS Minnus are belt driven. Super high RPM motors are much smaller and cheaper to make than comparable power low RPM motors.

The cuda actually pulls just over 1000w, is hasn't changed since the last Tahoe benchmark which I linked. Its also comparatively inefficient at more normal cruise speeds compared to other scooters and more modern designs

 

[tbone1004]

The cuda actually pulls just over 1000w, is hasn't changed since the last Tahoe benchmark which I linked. Its also comparatively inefficient at more normal cruise speeds compared to other scooters and more modern designs

it will pull what it needs and what it can. There will be restrictions from the battery and the ESC, but the motor itself is rated for 1200w.
The motor specs are below, it's a BFA-42-200
https://magmotor.com/brushless/bfa-ba42.pdf

Efficiency on these things is actually much more prop based than anything else. You can see that when looking at the Cuda and the Magnus in the Tahoe compendium that use the same prop and shroud, and are both direct drive with Castle Creations ESC's, but the Magnus pulls 25% more power since it had to be depitched to meet the "cruise" speeds. The Genesis pulls 25% less than the DiveX because the prop and shroud design is optimized for the RPM that it is running. The original prop/shroud for the DiveX/SS dpv's were designed for the original Tekna's that were spinning about 60% as fast at top speed.

 

[FIGJAM007]

I wonder what wattage the blacktip is? The problem I have with that scooter (apart from the handle) is that I have heard towing stages it will drop below gear 6. The scooter will most likely be used with AP inspiration al80 and al40\al80. I just figure it will drop speed (below its 200ft continuous)? Otherwise the exploration version doesn’t seem too bad. Thoughts?

I do like that it’s injection moulded (doesn’t rust) but then the old cuda never got bad rust anyway.

EDIT: seems someone on facebook has done a similar test:

I need to update this a bit with the speed numbers from this weekend.
In my side mount CCR Cave configuration I got 214 FPM on speed 8, and 150 FPM on speed 4. Run time with 9 Ah batteries at speed 4 (with 1 minute at speed 8 and 3 minutes at speed 6) was 60 minutes. That’s just under 9000 ft and I’d be comfortable planning 3500 ft penetrations with the 9AH batteries and 4500 with 12 Ah batteries.

Alternatively you could bump the speed up to 5 or 6 and get a similar run time. Speed 5 was about 165 FPM and speed 6 was about 180 FPM. Speed 7 gave me 194 FPM.
One note is that speed 8 needs to be used sparingly. If you run it in boost mode at 7 or 8 until it shifts down, you need to back off to 4 or 5 as in 72 degree water it shifted down again after a few minutes at speed 6 while doing speed runs. Cold water would probably be more forgiving. But even in warm water it’ll run with no limit at 4 or 5 (or even 6 if you don’t push it at 7 or 8 first. )
Short story is that it was faster than I expected at speed 8 (214 FPM compared to 240 FPM for a P1 or P2 in the same configuration) and achieved 150 FPM at just speed 4 with a very usable range and burn time. Speeds 6-8 are ample for high flow cave sections and 4 (or 5 if you are not as clean in the water in your personal cave configuration) will get you a 150 FPM cruise.
I have more detail on the Karst Scuba Facebook page.

 

[rjack321]

I wonder what wattage the blacktip is? The problem I have with that scooter (apart from the handle) is that I have heard towing stages it will drop below gear 6. The scooter will most likely be used with AP inspiration al80 and al40\al80. I just figure it will drop speed (below its 200ft continuous)? Otherwise the exploration version doesn’t seem too bad. Thoughts?

I do like that it’s injection moulded (doesn’t rust) but then the old cuda never got bad rust anyway.

EDIT: seems someone on facebook has done a similar test:

I need to update this a bit with the speed numbers from this weekend.
In my side mount CCR Cave configuration I got 214 FPM on speed 8, and 150 FPM on speed 4. Run time with 9 Ah batteries at speed 4 (with 1 minute at speed 8 and 3 minutes at speed 6) was 60 minutes. That’s just under 9000 ft and I’d be comfortable planning 3500 ft penetrations with the 9AH batteries and 4500 with 12 Ah batteries.

Alternatively you could bump the speed up to 5 or 6 and get a similar run time. Speed 5 was about 165 FPM and speed 6 was about 180 FPM. Speed 7 gave me 194 FPM.
One note is that speed 8 needs to be used sparingly. If you run it in boost mode at 7 or 8 until it shifts down, you need to back off to 4 or 5 as in 72 degree water it shifted down again after a few minutes at speed 6 while doing speed runs. Cold water would probably be more forgiving. But even in warm water it’ll run with no limit at 4 or 5 (or even 6 if you don’t push it at 7 or 8 first. )
Short story is that it was faster than I expected at speed 8 (214 FPM compared to 240 FPM for a P1 or P2 in the same configuration) and achieved 150 FPM at just speed 4 with a very usable range and burn time. Speeds 6-8 are ample for high flow cave sections and 4 (or 5 if you are not as clean in the water in your personal cave configuration) will get you a 150 FPM cruise.
I have more detail on the Karst Scuba Facebook page.

Even if the battery let you, there is no way you would run in speed 8 continuously. Between your crotch aching your shoulders will be killing you in short order. Its a flimsy plastic pool toy to me, but hey the price is right.

 

[Jona Silverstein]

The CUDA motors can support 1300watts. From my tests in a single tank rig I am just shy of 300fpm. Running a smart-dpv controller, I have the silence of a black tip with the junk ripping power of a Cuda...

 

[FIGJAM007]

Even if the battery let you, there is no way you would run in speed 8 continuously. Between your crotch aching your shoulders will be killing you in short order. Its a flimsy plastic pool toy to me, but hey the price is right.

I ended up getting a cuda 650 with a lithium battery. Thanks for the advice.