Counting Dives in Marsa Alam towards Brothers?

[bvbellomo]

I plan to be in Marsa Alam to board the Tillis in November for a BDE trip. I was hoping to get my 50 dives this summer, but many of the smaller trips I hoped to do this summer were cancelled due to COVID. I am at 37 now, and should be above 40 after this weekend. I *could* get 10 quarry dives in 1 weekend, very cheap, very boring, and I won't learn anything - other than padding my dive log, it would be a waste of a weekend.

I was hoping for a day of shore based diving in Marsa Alam before my liveaboard. Can I count those dives towards my 50? How strict are the liveaboards with dive logs anyway? I only have 25 dives officially signed off on SSI's website, although I can probably get that fixed.

FYI - please don't turn this into a COVID thread. I understand COVID might affect my plans, but would like to focus on the topic of where/when to dive.

 

[JustSurfaceInterval]

A Dive is a dive and if it is in your log it will count. Of course if a buddy countersigns the dive that will look better. It does not matter if it's lake, quarry, day/night, see, cave, wreck, deep,... The nature of the dive is only relevant when you want to show your experience.
But as you may quickly spot, the entry in your log is nothing written with blood and signed off by any worldwide approved entity.
And that's the reason why you are very likely to go through a check dive with with a DM as a first dive on a LOB. He will assess your skills and make a jugement what dives will fit your level and when you will have to stay on board, when others are going (e.g. strong current). And yes, he will be god for you.

If you are at a dive shop or on board a LOB and no one cares about your skills and experience before the first dive, i would be very, very worried and escape at the first opportunity.

Edit: i Just found a FAQ with details:
Each diver has to be able to verify a completed diving training and at least some additional dives to join to a liveaboard. For diving cruises which are going to the marine parks you need to have at least 50 logged dives as per regulation by the Egyptian law. For cruises to the Deep South we strongly recommend a minimum of 30 logged dives. The last dive should be made not longer than six months ago before the diving cruise starts. If one of these requirements is not fulfilled our dive guides have the right to exclude the diver from certain dives during the diving trip. In addition the dive guides can change the route according to the training level and the experience of the divers. Don´t forget to bring your logbook and diving certification as well as your Nitrox certification if you wish to dive with enriched air.

 

[rayaa3]

We did BDE. They took our c cards. Never looked at logs.

Honestly it's an arbitrary number. I've gone in the water with people with hundreds of dives that I wouldn't do again. That said. Do all the dives you can whenever you can, wherever you can (safely).

One day you will be dead and those Marsa Alam dives will count as a good day you had.

The hood days are the only log entry that counts in the end.

 

[rayaa3]

*good days

Hood days. Lol

 

[stepfen]

I think the 50 dives is a legal requirement for some of the dive parks - it is not a requirement of the LoB operator.
As such it is not a strictly enforced requirement (that's Egypt after all).
In one one case/LoB I've done there they didn't bother to check dive counts at all . We just had to fill in a form with our c card number (nobody checked that either) followed by a very relaxed checkout dive. I've got the impression that in order to deny you participation you should be VERY bad diver

 

[bvbellomo]

A Dive is a dive and if it is in your log it will count. Of course if a buddy countersigns the dive that will look better. It does not matter if it's lake, quarry, day/night, see, cave, wreck, deep,... The nature of the dive is only relevant when you want to show your experience.
But as you may quickly spot, the entry in your log is nothing written with blood and signed off by any worldwide approved entity.
And that's the reason why you are very likely to go through a check dive with with a DM as a first dive on a LOB. He will assess your skills and make a jugement what dives will fit your level and when you will have to stay on board, when others are going (e.g. strong current). And yes, he will be god for you.

If you are at a dive shop or on board a LOB and no one cares about your skills and experience before the first dive, i would be very, very worried and escape at the first opportunity.

Edit: i Just found a FAQ with details:
Each diver has to be able to verify a completed diving training and at least some additional dives to join to a liveaboard. For diving cruises which are going to the marine parks you need to have at least 50 logged dives as per regulation by the Egyptian law. For cruises to the Deep South we strongly recommend a minimum of 30 logged dives. The last dive should be made not longer than six months ago before the diving cruise starts. If one of these requirements is not fulfilled our dive guides have the right to exclude the diver from certain dives during the diving trip. In addition the dive guides can change the route according to the training level and the experience of the divers. Don´t forget to bring your logbook and diving certification as well as your Nitrox certification if you wish to dive with enriched air.

We did BDE. They took our c cards. Never looked at logs.

Honestly it's an arbitrary number. I've gone in the water with people with hundreds of dives that I wouldn't do again. That said. Do all the dives you can whenever you can, wherever you can (safely).

One day you will be dead and those Marsa Alam dives will count as a good day you had.

The hood days are the only log entry that counts in the end.

Skills are very important - both my objective skills, and the operators' subjective level of trust in me. But it is certainly possible for an inexperienced diver to do everything right (especially on an easy check dive), and while I have no first hand experience, I've heard horror stories about very experienced divers doing everything wrong. So dive count is something different from measurable skill.

My biggest fears are being denied based on website or paperwork issues. For example, my instructor said I finished the Nitrox course but SSI's website says I did not. I caught this and will fix it, but what if I missed it? Would I be denied Nitrox?

The log book is even more subjective - even if the website agrees I did 50 dives, you could, for example, question whether a dive should count if it was approved by an instructor who wasn't physically on the dive. Or maybe a dive was too short or not deep enough. My dive log might fail a court cross examination by a good lawyer, but it sounds like this won't be an issue.

Last weekend was 61F, tomorrow is supposed to be 58F. Both are definitely hood days, but I am not looking forward to reaching 50 hood days.

 

[bvbellomo]

A Dive is a dive and if it is in your log it will count. Of course if a buddy countersigns the dive that will look better. It does not matter if it's lake, quarry, day/night, see, cave, wreck, deep,... The nature of the dive is only relevant when you want to show your experience.
But as you may quickly spot, the entry in your log is nothing written with blood and signed off by any worldwide approved entity.
And that's the reason why you are very likely to go through a check dive with with a DM as a first dive on a LOB. He will assess your skills and make a jugement what dives will fit your level and when you will have to stay on board, when others are going (e.g. strong current). And yes, he will be god for you.

If you are at a dive shop or on board a LOB and no one cares about your skills and experience before the first dive, i would be very, very worried and escape at the first opportunity.

Edit: i Just found a FAQ with details:
Each diver has to be able to verify a completed diving training and at least some additional dives to join to a liveaboard. For diving cruises which are going to the marine parks you need to have at least 50 logged dives as per regulation by the Egyptian law. For cruises to the Deep South we strongly recommend a minimum of 30 logged dives. The last dive should be made not longer than six months ago before the diving cruise starts. If one of these requirements is not fulfilled our dive guides have the right to exclude the diver from certain dives during the diving trip. In addition the dive guides can change the route according to the training level and the experience of the divers. Don´t forget to bring your logbook and diving certification as well as your Nitrox certification if you wish to dive with enriched air.

I don't understand paper logs. If I carried paper with my dive gear, I'd be lucky if it survived 5 dives.

With SSI's website, I don't think a normal buddy can sign off. Especially if it is a PADI buddy who isn't even on SSI's website, but even though I am on the website, I don't think I can sign off on another diver's log since I am not an instructor. If I can, I don't know how.

SSI's website also has me at a max depth of "32 feet" despite counting a 119 foot dive that was signed off on by an instructor. It isn't a great website, and I don't think people know how to use it.

 

[JustSurfaceInterval]

I don't get that one

If I carried paper with my dive gear, I'd be lucky if it survived 5 dives.​

With less than 50 dives you should be able to carry a print out with you, don't you (not under water, of course).
Relying on Logs in the Cloud is a bit bold when going on a LOB in Egypt. Are you sure you will have access?

​

 

[scubadada]

Hi @bvbellomo

I did 2 weeks Red Sea LOB in 2016, a different operator. I had vaguely heard of the 50 dive minimum. My operator checked C cards, but did not check my log book. They may have asked about number of dives, I was far over the minimum.

If I were you, I would try to make the 50 dive requirement, even if that means some quarry dives. It would be a shame if your diving was at all limited because of this. Personally, I would just take a paper log as a record. Very few get their logs signed off, it is not necessary.

I don't know how much time you have in Port Ghalib/Marsa Alam before you depart on your LOB. I arrived a day early and did a nice 3 tanker with Emperor Divers. They also offer RIB local diving and have a house reef. They are located at the Marina Lodge, across the marina from the main area. I don't see any reason these dives would not count, a nice warm up for your LOB. Of course, I don't know if Emperor Divers is, or will be, operating normally.

Good luck

 

[bvbellomo]

I don't get that one

If I carried paper with my dive gear, I'd be lucky if it survived 5 dives.​

With less than 50 dives you should be able to carry a print out with you, don't you (not under water, of course).
Relying on Logs in the Cloud is a bit bold when going on a LOB in Egypt. Are you sure you will have access?

I have nothing against carrying a temporary paper copy that doesn't need to survive the trip. What I don't understand is carrying a pocketbook with physical signatures that are the only record of my dives. I suppose it could work if people are really careful, but it only takes one mishap and your dives are gone.