Cost, obsolescence, and how much 'better' can lights get ?

[Mark IV]

Going by my convoluted thread title, you probably gathered that I have a mixed bag of questions. I just read a comment referring to the advancements dive lights have made just since 2010, and then i think back to the big, badass (and heavy) Dive Right canister light I had back in the mid 90's, that cost me a buttload (in inflation adjusted dollars, probably more than DR primaries go for now, so they do seem to have gotten a bit more economical).
I've been reading up on what's-what these days, with an eye towards possibly getting back into the caves at some point, and I keep reading about all the little hustles and schemes the various companies employ, from exaggerated lumens, to knowingly flawed designs and batteries, to seriously over-driven LED's, to inconsistently honored warranties, etc.etc. (all of which adds risk, and takes a lot of the fun out of shopping).
I'm also wondering if they're getting close to peak performance with current technology, materials and designs, or if there's still a lot of room for advancement? Now obviously, no one needs,say, a billion lumens, but stuff like more reliable switches, especially for multiple modes, and foolproof water-proofing would be nice.
So I'm just thinking about the pros and cons of dropping a major pile of cash on the current technology, and the likelihood (or not) of it being obsolete in the not-too-distant future (well, maybe not quite obsolete, but where I'd be thinking, "damn ! I wish I'd have waited a little longer"!).
Or do you think without a major technology leap, we're close to as good as they can get (sure, they might stretch battery life a little more, but I can't imagine they'll do anything like doubling or tripling current output, on current technology).
OK, enough babbling, y'all get the idea. So what do you light-brainiacs think ?

 

[grantctobin]

Look at UWLD if it hasn’t already popped up on your list. The Gen6 rises above competition and addresses most of your concerns as is. While different battery tech or a different driver could pop up, I feel that light will remain relevant for a while and Bobby is pretty consistent in offering upgrade paths or at least having some backwards compatability. I suspect you’ll see more lights migrating towards having UWLD-esque features but would be content with that light for the foreseeable future.

 

[tbone1004]

In terms of the technology. In terms of efficiency, lumens:watt, they are improving but marginally so. Not a whole lot of room left to go
Battery technology has also hit a peak in terms of watts/cubic inch, but you are now limited by airline regulations for battery size anyway and very few people have a need for any more burn time. The next battery tech will just make the existing cans smaller, but they're small enough now that they're unobtrusive and will drive handhelds more than they will canisters. Batteries are VERY expensive to develop with the testing required. It's why Dive Rite uses the 18650 cell holder instead of a pack.

Being a bit of an insider in that realm, I can tell you that there isn't going to be any crazy revelations like changing halogen to HID then to LED or SLA to NiMH to LiPo. It's all going to be marginal improvements over time. UWLD just did theirs and won't be releasing anything crazy for a couple years, same with Dive Rite, LM has been stagnant for a bit, but if they come up with anything it will be minor changes to what they have now.

Not sure what your buying criteria really is from the list of deal breakers, but the only one left is UWLD from what you have listed if each of the things you mentioned are deal breakers.

 

[Mark IV]

Not "deal breakers" necessarily, just kinda rambling concerns off the top of my head. With a pretty decent variety of solid stuff around, it starts coming down to the finer points, you know how it is.
You confirmed my guess that we were pretty close to the top of the curve,as far as significant new developments go.
And, yeah, I'm familiar with UWLD from reading several of you guys endorsing it lately. They definitely sound like the shizz (but yikes! they ain't cheap!)
Rather than technology and higher performance, the new frontier may be......economy. The Chi-coms are already putting out a lot of sub-$100 hand-helds that are gaining a wide fan base. If they up the consistency and QC a bit, as well as providing a decent warranty and CS, they could start moving into the primary canister light market, and maybe give the US-made big boys some trouble.

 

[broncobowsher]

I think we have hit a bit of a plateau for now. The other industries driving the technology have the product they want and there isn't really any new stuff coming.

If you look at the lights, the HID followed the HID in the automotive world. That was the go to light when you wanted light. I can remember getting the UK light cannon and that blew everything else out of the dive shop. Couldn't do better without actually getting into true technical dive lights. The best a regular dive shop could order up. Today it is garbage, I recently gave it away to a friend who plays with electronics and stuff.

Today the HID dive light is just about gone. Few monster high power video lights, but nobody is making it a primary light anymore. Everything is LED. 15 years ago, LED was a joke. Few low power recreational lights and that is about it. Follow the automotive field that pushed development and most mid level and up cars now have LED for headlamps. Again that technology has worked itself into dive light business. They are way more reliable and affordable than the older HIDs. It is where the technology level is at.

If you want to go back a little further there was the big jump from sealed beam to Halogen bulbs in the early 80s(?). My first dive light was a halogen, not sure how bad a seal beam dive light would have been. Predates me.

There is a little in the future. Not sure if it is a marketing gimmick, reworked LEDs, or actual. But one of the German auto makers is playing around with laser headlights. Maybe there is one model with them now? Maybe still in the testing phase? Too far away for me to worry about. Reports back are "amazing, like daylight", but I have also seen some high power LED lights used in off-road race trucks. 10 years we might have a few show up in the water.

After a massive amount of research I just ordered up a new light. Getting one of the first production batch of UWLD 4,000 Lumen lights. Waiting for them to ship real soon (if not already). Everything says the specs are real and the engineering is sound.

 

[tbone1004]

@broncobowsher laser headlights are real, I think it was Audi who is messing around with them. That will be the next step, and they're being looked at for this application, but it will be a while before they are anywhere near cost effective to seriously prototype. The state of the art with emitters and batteries is being constantly monitored but it also has to be cost effective. People balk at $2k can lights, they wouldn't tolerate $3k can lights, no matter how good they may be

 

[Wstern5]

Not "deal breakers" necessarily, just kinda rambling concerns off the top of my head. With a pretty decent variety of solid stuff around, it starts coming down to the finer points, you know how it is.
You confirmed my guess that we were pretty close to the top of the curve,as far as significant new developments go.
And, yeah, I'm familiar with UWLD from reading several of you guys endorsing it lately. They definitely sound like the shizz (but yikes! they ain't cheap!)
Rather than technology and higher performance, the new frontier may be......economy. The Chi-coms are already putting out a lot of sub-$100 hand-helds that are gaining a wide fan base. If they up the consistency and QC a bit, as well as providing a decent warranty and CS, they could start moving into the primary canister light market, and maybe give the US-made big boys some trouble.

If cost is a concern I would recommend buying used or second hand, seems like lights from the top companies are frequently for sale on eBay, cavediver.net and scubaboard. Last year I had to buy primary lights for me and my wife, found a Light Monkey 10-21 for $350 and a brand new Halcyon Focus for $735 on eBay. If you end up wanting a different light you could probably sell for around what you payed. Personally I really like being able to focus the beam, it’s great in bad visibility or if you want to draw someone’s attention to something very specific or small.

 

[broncobowsher]

I'm still going with the laser will be ~10 years out before it is commercially viable. Talking higher end lights here, Stuff that 10-15 years ago would have been HID. The basic dive light will be LED for decades.

And I am with you on the battery technology being pretty much peaked. Laptops and cell phones are not showing any new battery tech. Those and electric cars were the big push to get to todays Lithium batteries. Energy density is about maxed out with any factor of safety. Probably a few more decades before anything truly new has any chance of making it.

I'm comfortable enough with the offerings in the market I just ordered up a new light. Don't see anything that says there is anything revolutionary coming to the market anytime soon.

 

[halocline]

If you buy something that you enjoy using, that works consistently, and does what you want it to do, you don't have to worry about obsolescence. Maybe something better does comes out, but if you like what you have, you don't need to upgrade.

I personally prefer having a small light head tethered to a canister over carrying a bulkier, heavier hand held. Sure the cord is an added thing to think about, but it works for me, so.....

 

[Addison Snyder]

People balk at $2k can lights, they wouldn't tolerate $3k can lights, no matter how good they may be

It's hard to justify buying a 2-3k light when you've got less than 200 dives under your belt, and the following is 'good enough' for most activities. I'm all for American companies and warranties and customer service, but a good number of lights are just branded Chinese ones anyway, with a 400%+ markup. Until you get into the bells and whistles of a real high-end light (Piezo switches, variable focus, etc.), the American AdvantageⓇ just isn't there.

Cheap $20 backup, I just through surgical tubing around the switch to keep it shut off - I have/carry 2 of these, might get another for non-diving use
US $10.72 44% OFF|Super bright Diving Flashlight IP68 highest waterproof rating Professional diving light Powered by 18650 battery With hand rope|LED Flashlights| - AliExpress
Just bought this as a primary, haven't used it yet, but am intending to replace my video light later:
US $35.99 25% OFF|BORUiT 5*XM L2 LED Scuba Diving Flashlight 6000LM 3 Mode Diving Video Photography Torch Underwater 80M 18650 Spearfishing Light|LED Flashlights| - AliExpress
Used this over 50ish dives, has been wonderful until recently, when I dropped it on its switch and chipped it. Now it turns off at 60-ish feet (no leak). This is just an unbranded Max Planck 8000 from what I can figure.
US $74.38 6% OFF|Asafee DP11 LED Diving Flashlight Blue White Red Underwater 100M Photography Video Camera Tactical Flashlight LED Lanterna Torch|LED Flashlights| - AliExpress