Considering a EOS 60D - Should I get it and with what lense as my "go-to" lens?

[Tigerman]

Ok, so after about 4000 pictures Im starting to feel that Im getting what there is to get out of my belowed old CHDK powered G7 and Im considering getting an upgrade.
And lets be honest, I kinda just WANT one too - new gadgets and all that

Whats definitely not happening is me getting a 1100D or the 5D/6D/7D cameras - The 1100D is too "cheap and simple" and the 5D/7D options are from a bit to way on the expensive side.

That leave me with the 600D, 650D and 60D as thats pretty much their DSLR range and Im kinda thinking the 60D might be the way to go.
The housing is going to cost me about the same eyeball for all 3 of them, so thats not part of my decision making process.

Now, what could push me in one way or the other is the fact that the 60D housing is quite a lot more expensive than the other two - you get the 600D/650D with a (cheap) lens for the price of only the 60D housing.
Is there any good reason NOT to get the 60D over the other two? Is the extra cost of the 60D "worth it"? It seems to me it would be, but I could be mistaken.

Now of course after getting the housing you also need optics and that is, lets face it, going to cost a lot of money as well, but thats fine.
I AM however planning to do build this camera system in "stages" and would like to find one good lens that I can use as a "multipurpose lens" and rather get more lenses at a later point and it would be good if this lens could be used atleast as well as my G7 could without strobes - which is another expensive addition that will come, but not immediately.

So that brings up the question what focal lengths and f/ would be adequate for a lens for that kinda use?
The G7 has an equivalent of 35-210mm (or so the specs claim) which Im fairly confident with and the equivalent for a 60D with a crop factor of 1.6 should be something like a 22-130mm lens (as IF) so Im thinking something like a 24-70mm lens, like the Sigma 24-70 f/2.8?
I can find those for about the same cost or slightly above that of the 60D housing, which is quite fine.
As far as Ive gathered a lens like that should be using a flat port rather than a dome port.

So does this sound like a sane plan for a start?
EOS 60D with a 24-70mm f/2.8 lens and a housing with a flat port?
I know you can NOT use internal flash with DSLR and most (atleast affordable) housings so strobes will be needed for low-light conditions (and better for all), but that will come as the next thing and then more lens options.

P.S. What F/ would be "not good enough" 4.0? would 5.6 suffice or would that be a disaster?

 

[00wabbit]

I've got a 60d. It's pretty nice.
I know you have coined out the 7d but it seems to be much preferred over the 60. It has more focus points, is weather sealed and metal body I believe. The 60d is not weather sealed and has a plastic body. It has not phased me at all but I thought I should through it out.

The 60d has a flip out screen which is nice for odd angle photography or video. Just don't forget to flip ore the screen enforce you dive or you'll be sorry.

The 60d isn't great with low light. I try to keep the ISo slower than 640-800

The crop factor is noticeable with the 24-70. I have it and the 10-22. On land I tend to end up shoot right in between the 2. It means I switch lenses a lot. I got a 50mm but it's too zoomed on the cropped sensor. 35mm would be better.

Also note the 24-70 is a big heavy lens. I don't like carrying all the time because of the weight.

All my comments are land based. Never had it underwater. I would try to get a used 5d mark2. It's better at low light, can gt full use from the l lenses and will produce a higher res image. That will be my next move. I almost bought a 5d3 but then I stared diving and all my money went to that

 

[Tigerman]

Yeah, the 7D is about 1,5x the price of the 60D which is already listed at around $1k, not to mention the 5D..
Heavy is not as much an issue for me, being under water, but yes, its a lens that weigh almost 1kg.. - bouyancy is more of a matter, but UW housings tend to have a fair bit of that and the plastic body/weather seal stuff - well, Im primarilly getting it to shoot under water, so Im not too worried about that.

 

[elan]

Body decision is for me not the first priority. Why not start from the lens light system and underwater case. Canon has great lenses. I cannot advise on specifics as we use Nikon. I would first look at what my direction would be in terms of what Im going to take the pics of thus the lens and in what conditions then light system/strobes then convenience of the case and then the body. Im not saying the body is not important at all but probably not in the first place.

 

[decidedlyodd]

The big advantages the 60D offers over a Rebel line camera (600D/T3i, 650D/T4i, etc.) is two control dials and more autofocus points. The extra control dial matters less on some housings like Nauticam's that are able to provide similar functionality through an easy to use switch. Extra focus points are nice too but not strictly required. The Rebels are generally smaller than many other DSLRs which does affect housing size too.

The camera price is pretty minimal once you consider how much a housing, strobes, ports, lenses, clamps, arms, etc. add up to.

As for lenses, the two go-to lenses for Canon cropped sensor DSLRs underwater are the Tokina 10-17 fisheye zoom and the 60mm macro. The Tokina 11-16 or Canon 10-22 are also popular for rectilinear (non-fisheye) wide angle. The 100mm Canon macro (L or non-L) is preferred by some for macro.

Other types of lenses generally don't work as well because it's hard to frame a subject properly while getting close enough to avoid a lot of water in between (= washed out, flat shots).

 

[Tigerman]

Body decision is for me not the first priority. Why not start from the lens light system and underwater case. Canon has great lenses. I cannot advise on specifics as we use Nikon. I would first look at what my direction would be in terms of what Im going to take the pics of thus the lens and in what conditions then light system/strobes then convenience of the case and then the body. Im not saying the body is not important at all but probably not in the first place.

Thats the thing - at the moment Im doing a little of all - I do like macro, but I also do shoot a lot on "buddy distance" with the occasional somehwat longer range shots and thats capabilities I like to keep.
I will be getting a dedicated macro lens, but what Im looking at with housing, lense and housing is in the $4000 range and I AM just a guy who like taking pictures under water and not a professional, so it will have to come in stages..
Strobes will also come, but that as well at a somewhat later point. I need to be able to afford USING the camera as well

 

[je76]

I use both but I have but I would say the 600D (T3i) is a better buy than the 60D. The T4i is the same camera as the T3i so avoid the 650D.

If I were looking to break into a SLR I would get a T3i now that the price has dropped (thank you T4i) and put the extra money where it really matters...a lens. **I have so many students who go out and get these great bodies, have junky kit lenses and then complain their pictures aren't sharp. Its all about the lens.**

Right now on Amazon I can find the T3i for $637 with a kit lens and $485 without. The 60D is $851 for just the body and $1100.00 with a kit lens. Save the $400.00 and invest in a good lens.

As far as I am concerned the only huge difference is the pricing between the two, especially for u/w photography. Check out the specs, everything is just about the same and where it really counts, sensor size, they are exactly the same. The processor is also exactly the same (Digic 4). True there are some extra handy dandy knobs and buttons on one over the other but as someone who has used both I would say the difference is minimal. When I am staring through the viewfinder all those buttons, knobs and dials don't really matter so I am confused as to why people get so hung up on them. When working underwater those buttons matter even less as it is the buttons on the housing that matters and it probably won't be configured like the camera (I know my Sea and Sea isn't).

The 60D has a max shutter value of 1/8000 over the T3is 1/4000. For my u/w photography this is irrelevant. You are shooting with strobes and your max sync speed is 1/200th on the T3i and 1/250th on the 60D. This difference is negligible. For your surface photography unless you are shooting race cars and other sporting events that 1/8000th means nothing. The 60D shoots at 5.7 frames and the T3i at 3.7...again for u/w photography this is not relevant, you are limited by your strobes and falloff not by the camera's speed. 60D is environmentally sealed but it will be housed and even on the surface again the difference is negligible. With the cameras I own the T3i actually gets quite a bit of outdoor abuse with little to no effect.

The autofocus points could be important but as your photography grows you will notice that you are using a single auto focus point since you probably won't want the camera deciding where you intended to focus. It also gives you more control over the depth of field (i.e. very low f values mean you need precise focus to shoot something closer at longer focal lengths...say 50mm so your 9 point af will probably be disabled). However this could be a minor point of contention but I wouldn't consider it major.

I am currently using a Tokina 11-16 2.8 ultra wide lens. Avoid longer zooms unless you are getting a Canon L rated lens as others tend to be less sharp. You want something where you can get in close and use your strobes to light your subject. If you are into macro this may change your thoughts a bit but a nice normal lens would do the trick and they are often cheaper. For your SLR I doubt you are going to have the same versatility that you would have with a p/s camera like the G7. You aren't going to get those long swings in focal length and be able to do w/a and macro on the same dive (generally speaking).

Most SLR shooters go in already planning on shooting close focus w/a, macro or some other type of shot and outfit their camera rig accordingly.

I recommend the T3i. Save the money and put it towards a quality lens.

 

[Tigerman]

The lense Ive been considering is a $1k lens that should be pretty good, but as it turns out it doesnt matter - according to the ikelite charts its too large diameter to be used in a UW body anyways (goes both the sigma and the canon 24-40mm f/2.8 lenses) so Ill be looking into something different.

I am planning to shoot macro more than wide, but a lens that goes from normal or moderate wide angle to decent macro would be preferrable.

 

[je76]

The lens is too big even for a dome port?

I am a fan of Sea and Sea, I like their housings and their strobes. I have a buddy who shoots a D7000 and he has Ikelite. He originally got into Ikelite because of the price and the quality of their strobes so he stuck with it but Sea and Sea's RDX series for the Rebel cameras is well priced and they have quite a few different ports to accomodate a variety of lenses.

My Tokina has a min focus distance of less than a foot so that is almost touching the end of the port...swing the strobe arms into position and some nice macro shots follow. Plus you have plenty of pixels to crop in closer should you want to.

 

[Tigerman]

Canon

24mm f/1.4L II USM 24-70mm f/2.8L EF USM

Lens diameter is too large to operate in port system.

Sigma

24-70mm F2.8 EX DG Macro

Lens diameter is too large to operate in port system.

Same goes for a few other lenses, like the 18-50mm f2.8 and 17-55 f2.8