Choosing an instructor...

[angelfire13]

I'm in need of a little help here and I'm hoping that some of you are willing to offer up your opinions.

I am "shopping" for an instructor for my OW cert. and have been in contact with someone who is highly qualified and seems to be well regarded in the diving community. I told him (in detail) that I have had a bad SCUBA experience in the past, and that, "I am very determined to learn to scuba dive. I am not the type of person who lets fears stand in the way of things I want to do -- this is an obstacle I'm committed to overcoming. I don't need hand-holding, nor a babysitter. I only need an instructor who is aware of my situation and can sympathize with it, having the patience to give me extra encouragement when needed". I also inquired about private lessons.

His response was, "from what you have said it is honestly up in the air whether or not you need private lessons. if you are in a normal class group (no more than 8) then the attention you would receive would equal the attention given to any student. if you think you will need hands on attention for a considerable period of time, than there is of course a charge for that..."

Here is my issue:

I can't decide how I feel about an instructor who is unwilling to give ANY extra attention to those who need it without charging a fee. Isn't it just assumed that some students will sail through with no issues, and others need more time? Shouldn't a good instructor naturally allow for that? Would YOU feel comfortable with an instructor who tells you that you won't be allowed extra assistance if you need it?

But, wait -- he is only being fair to the rest of the class, right? A crappy SCUBA experience 10 years ago in another country doesn't entitle me to any extras here and now, does it? Hell, no. Maybe he is just exaggerating things a little bit to protect himself should I turn out to be someone who REALLY needs A LOT of attention. Am I only feeling uneasy because I'm not used to being the one who needs extra help?

Thoughts?

(Can you tell I over analyze everything? LOL.)

 

[SDAnderson]

Based on your history (to the extent you've discussed it on this board) and your current anxiety level, my guess is that you're going to need some intensive supervision and instruction. The worst case scenario is that you will end up spending a few dollars more than group lessons would cost, the best case scenario is that the extra attention will get you over the hump and moving forward.

What to look for in an instructor: they should teach more than occasionally; they should dive for fun regularly (you'd be surprised how many never do); they should have been teaching for at least a couple of years; they should be mature enough to leave their ego at home, etc. Go spend a day at a local dive site and ask divers who they took their class from and what they thought of the instructor - you'll get a lot of "my instructor was the greatest" but you'll also get some honest dope.

 

[angelfire13]

Thanks for your thoughts. I should have mentioned that if I were to use this instructor, I would be doing private lessons.

I guess I'm just concerned that his ideology is based around ego, and not based on my individual situation. I'm well aware that I may need extra assistance, which I'm willing to pay for if necessary. I'm just not sure that I like the attitude of, "well, if you need it ya gotta pay for it".

Shouldn't a good instructor be a bit more flexible than that?

Based on your history (to the extent you've discussed it on this board) and your current anxiety level, my guess is that you're going to need some intensive supervision and instruction. The worst case scenario is that you will end up spending a few dollars more than group lessons would cost, the best case scenario is that the extra attention will get you over the hump and moving forward.

What to look for in an instructor: they should teach more than occasionally; they should dive for fun regularly (you'd be surprised how many never do); they should have been teaching for at least a couple of years; they should be mature enough to leave their ego at home, etc. Go spend a day at a local dive site and ask divers who they took their class from and what they thought of the instructor - you'll get a lot of "my instructor was the greatest" but you'll also get some honest dope.

 

[friscuba]

Thanks for your thoughts. I should have mentioned that if I were to use this instructor, I would be doing private lessons.

I guess I'm just concerned that his ideology is based around ego, and not based on my individual situation. I'm well aware that I may need extra assistance, which I'm willing to pay for if necessary. I'm just not sure that I like the attitude of, "well, if you need it ya gotta pay for it".

Shouldn't a good instructor be a bit more flexible than that?

To me it seems that he is being up front and basing it on your individual situation. "if you think you will need hands on attention for a considerable period of time, than there is of course a charge for that..." implies to me that if you do indeed need individual attention you should be willing to pay for it but he's willilng ot work with you in either case. Not being privvy to the actual conversation I couldn't say however, but it sounds as though he's giving you the option of joining the regular class, but if it turns out that you need more indiviual attention you need to be aware it could cost extra.

Very few instructors guarantee they will stick with you, for no additional charge, no matter how much extra time it takes. To automatically expect that would be sort of like your boss asking you to hang around a work the weekend for free because the company isn't meeting quota even though you did your job just fine.

I'm just not ready to criticise the instructor in this case based on words alone, if he was saying this in a snotty manner, that's another story.

Good luck on your certification, stick with it and I bet you'll have a great time.

Steve

 

[wedivebc]

Thanks for your thoughts. I should have mentioned that if I were to use this instructor, I would be doing private lessons.

I guess I'm just concerned that his ideology is based around ego, and not based on my individual situation. I'm well aware that I may need extra assistance, which I'm willing to pay for if necessary. I'm just not sure that I like the attitude of, "well, if you need it ya gotta pay for it".

Shouldn't a good instructor be a bit more flexible than that?

It would be the same with any business contract be it scuba lessons or a new wing built on your house. The more work required the more money it cost. The scuba instructor is a professional and entitled to be paid for his efforts. In this case I think he is just letting you know extra effort will cost extra. Seems like a pretty normal contract arrangement to me.

 

[D_B]

If the instructor is not doing it for the money , just enjoys teaching others , is enthusiastic about diving and all things related to the sea , willing to spend extra time with a student if he or the student thinks they need it , will even schedule another pool session , on his own time, at no extra charge , makes learning to dive fun , etc, etc .... you'll work through any difficulties and have a positive attitude afterwords

You can probably tell an instructor like this just by talking to him , and also ask his students just why they think he was good instructor (can you tell I think I got a good one)

DB

 

[SubMariner]

It would be the same with any business contract be it scuba lessons or a new wing built on your house. The more work required the more money it cost. The scuba instructor is a professional and entitled to be paid for his efforts. In this case I think he is just letting you know extra effort will cost extra. Seems like a pretty normal contract arrangement to me.

People tend to forget that Instructors have overhead too. Pool time, classroom time, equipment, travel time (gas), insurance, etc., etc., etc. all gets figured into how much each student is charged. Thus it's only logical that the per student cost goes up the less people are involved.

angelfire13, why not go into a class to begin with and if you find that you're not comfortable in that situation, then arrange for private classes? IOW, I agree with the Instructor you talked with.

Pax,

 

[toodive4]

If you sign up for a group class you will likely receive the same amount of attention as everyone else in the group. If you struggle a little bit with skills or seem to fall behind the rest of the group, an assistant instructor (DiveMaster in Padi or DiveCon in SSI) is usually assigned to work with you one on one while the Instructor continues on with the core group. Ask if there are assistants helping with the class. If there are, this is a good way to get FREE individualized attention.

If you desire a full fledged instructor for private one on one time, then it is not unreasonable for the Instructor to be paid additional fees for private lessons. While some Instructors go the "extra mile" for their students by providing extra FREE pool or classroom time, they do a disservice to the profession. How many doctors, lawyers, electricians, plumbers etc... will give you additional FREE time? SCUBA Instructors are paid professionals and to begin with make far less money than any of the previously noted professions. Once a "private class" fee is negotiated and the full terms disclosed - then you should not be asked to pay anymore money. In other words if you're being taught private lessons for $600 for 3 classroom and 5 pool sessions, then $600 is what you should pay. If you need additional pool or class time, then you should expect to pay additonal fees.

I would say if money is an issue, find a shop that uses 1 or 2 assistants in the class and take advantage of the FREE personalized attention. If money is no object, find a top notch Instructor and pay him his fees. Good Instructors are hard to come by and are worth the money for private instruction. In most cases, the assistants are one step away from becoming instructors and will provide adequate one on one during a group session...

I hope this helps... and Happy Diving...

Ken Barrick
Instructor

I'm in need of a little help here and I'm hoping that some of you are willing to offer up your opinions.

I am "shopping" for an instructor for my OW cert. and have been in contact with someone who is highly qualified and seems to be well regarded in the diving community. I told him (in detail) that I have had a bad SCUBA experience in the past, and that, "I am very determined to learn to scuba dive. I am not the type of person who lets fears stand in the way of things I want to do -- this is an obstacle I'm committed to overcoming. I don't need hand-holding, nor a babysitter. I only need an instructor who is aware of my situation and can sympathize with it, having the patience to give me extra encouragement when needed". I also inquired about private lessons.

His response was, "from what you have said it is honestly up in the air whether or not you need private lessons. if you are in a normal class group (no more than 8) then the attention you would receive would equal the attention given to any student. if you think you will need hands on attention for a considerable period of time, than there is of course a charge for that..."

Here is my issue:

I can't decide how I feel about an instructor who is unwilling to give ANY extra attention to those who need it without charging a fee. Isn't it just assumed that some students will sail through with no issues, and others need more time? Shouldn't a good instructor naturally allow for that? Would YOU feel comfortable with an instructor who tells you that you won't be allowed extra assistance if you need it?

But, wait -- he is only being fair to the rest of the class, right? A crappy SCUBA experience 10 years ago in another country doesn't entitle me to any extras here and now, does it? Hell, no. Maybe he is just exaggerating things a little bit to protect himself should I turn out to be someone who REALLY needs A LOT of attention. Am I only feeling uneasy because I'm not used to being the one who needs extra help?

Thoughts?

(Can you tell I over analyze everything? LOL.)

 

[ae3753]

When I read the instructor's comments, I did not read it as "an instructor who is unwilling to give ANY extra attention to those who need it without charging a fee". To me, it appears that he is being up front about any additional costs, "if you think you will need hands on attention for a considerable period of time."

Since you have explained your situation, and he still thinks it's a possibility for group class, it seems that he would have to build in some personal attention for you in the group setting. However, this extra bit may not be enough. And at that point, he may need to arrange special sessions for you. And then it's only fair that the instructor gets compensated for the extra time, scheduling, travel expenses, etc. that would be required for additional sessions.

If he comes highly recommended and is well respected in the dive community, that's a good indication that he's doing something right. Definitely speak to his referrals in detail, if you have any doubts. You definitely want an instructor whose teaching style and philosophy you agree with.

Also, if you have only corresponded via email, definitely talk to the instructor in person. Email is not the best form of communication, and can easily be misconstrued.

Best of luck!

 

[angelfire13]

Thanks, everyone, for your thoughts and words of advice. I very much appreciate your honesty and condor.

I agree with everyone on all points made in this thread. However, there is still something that really rubs me wrong about this instructor that I haven't been able to quite figure out.

Until this morning, that is. I just heard back from another instructor that I'm interested in. His wonderful, positive attitude about my situation made me realize what the other one is lacking, in MY opinion. Instructor #2 was excited for me to get back into diving, telling me that he'll work with me until things are straightened out. The fact that I may have to pay extra was implied, but not the only thing he mentioned. In short, he was encouraging and eager to get me back in the water.

I guess that's what I feel is missing from instructor #1. While he is nice, obviously qualified, blah, blah, blah, he seemed to lack enthusiasm and a positive attitude about my situation (which I do understand). Perhaps he's just a bit jaded, he has been in the business a long time. I guess I've realized that I was someone who is PASSIONATE.

I do plan to meet both of these instructors in person (probably others as well) before making a final decision. I agree that people are VERY difficult to read online. Anyway, thanks again!