Choices, choices. Some questions for advanced underwater photographers.

[Tzetsin]

I'm a land based photographer looking to expand into the underwater world. I'm also a Diver, so it should go quite naturally. My question is a little complicated.

I've got a number of camera bodies, but I only really want to buy one housing. I've got the 7D, 5d2 and the 1dx. I've got a price quote already for a rig using the 1dx. I was thinking though that perhaps the 5d2 might be the better choice. You see, I had the 5d2 modified for astro photography. The modification allows the camera to see and be sensitive to a wider range of red light. Knowing that the reds are a problem underwater, I was thinking that perhaps the mod will benefit underwater photography as well.

A couple of concerns with the 5d2 though is that the 5d2 is absolutely horrible for fast action shots. its got a fantastic sensor, but the only reliable AF point is dead center. the frame rate is really bad as well.

So heres the question. Do any of you long time / professional underwater photographers think that the astro mod would help any at all underwater, or would it simply be trumped by good strobes and shooting in RAW? If you think the mod might work, is the AF system usually a problem underwater, with the 5d2?

Thanks for any replys,

Jason

 

[Scuba_Pro46]

I am not a professional by any means but I believe good strobes and RAW shooting would negate the need for the astro mod underwater. Many photographers use RAW shooting or filters to get the images they want and these techniques work very well.

If autofocus is a bit iffy on land I would say it would be a real problem underwater especially when in darker conditions, which can be quite common underwater!

I am not that familiar with the 1DX but the 7D would not disappoint for underwater use.

 

[TheDeuce]

Well I'd take the 1Dx out of contention right off the hop. There's no upside to taking all that bulk and weight down with you - the advantages of a fully professional camera don't come down with you but the drawbacks sure do.

I shoot my old Rebel XTi under the water (I'm an occasional dabbler in scuba photography) and shoot a 5DII and 7D up top. Having used both I can say without reservation that if I was to take either the 5D2 or 7D down I'd choose the 7D - instantly.

Using the astro-modified unit sounds like it would be helpful but in astro photography the modification is not just about allowing more reds to pass - it's about allowing more total light in a low-light situation. Since you're almost certainly going to be using strobes the total light issue takes a back seat to other considerations. When shooting just the ambient light you still won't get a lot of help from the astro mod since you'll PShop and filter your way out of colour situations as they present themselves.

The real distinction is between full frame and sub frame - and I see almost no advantage to full frame in a scuba setting. Marginally better image quality (and I mean unnoticeable to all but 0.0001% of viewers) and a better focal control in macro. That's it. Wider field of view for the same lens too if you're shooting it on the two different units (which is why my topside macro 100mm never sees my 7D) but maximizing macro FoV underwater isn't a real priority.

Where the 7D really shines (and why it's my main topside unit) is in metering and autofocus. Especially low-light autofocus. While my 5D2 is hunting and pecking in the dark my 7D is locking and shooting with confidence and authority - and THAT's what I'd be putting a premium on when I'm shooting underwater.

I'll qualify all this by acknowledging that, underwater, I'm a glorified snapshooter. I'm not manually focusing, I don't shy away from using TTL, and I know I won't be winning any awards. All the best to those who pedantically obsess over every shot - I'm not one of them.


I hope that members with more experience weigh in here - I'd like to see a good FF vs Subframe discussion.




m.

 

[dhaas]

Tzetsin,

The Deuce says it all!!!!!

Of what you have the Canon 7D would be a great performer as an underwater SLR.

I do have some customers who housed their Full Frame Canon or Nikon models (Disclaimer: I'm an Ikelite dealer and actual shooter using their products) but most shoot APS-C sensor models with decent glass and produce astounding UW photos

I've posted tons of photos here (search under my name) and almost all have been shot on Canon APS-C models except for maybe a few Canon 5D (original 12.8 MP when I was doing test shots) and maybe a couple Nikon D100 APS-C shots.

I've never been unhappy shooting APS-C sensor SLR bodies from 2002.............

David Haas
www.haasimages.com

 

[bvanant]

I agree with David. I shoot both 5DIII and 7D above the water but shoot the 7D (and now an OMD) under the water. For macro stuff which is most of what I shoot, the crop factor of the 7D is helpful. For WA, I like the Tokina 10-17 a lot and the Canon 8-15 is also very nice. Given good strobes and a good focus light, the astrophotography mod will not make terribly much difference and at depths of 60 feet or more there is not enough red light to really make a big difference unless you are shooting a wreck with a long exposure and a tripod. The 7D is getting a bit dated in some respects, but there will be precious few shots you won't be able to get using the 7D in any housing that you might look at.

Bill

 

[Tzetsin]

the houseing for the 7d is a lot cheaper than the one for the 1dx. The 1dx though is ff, much faster AF and metering than the 7d and can run ISOs up to 25500 before the grain is a problem.... are those advantages really not that great? the 5d3 is a great cam too, have you tried it underwater?

dont get me wrong though, i love my 7d to death, but its nothing compaired to the 1dx.

I'm sorry to hear that the 5d2 isnt any better underwater than it is above... i really want to find more use for that thing.

 

[TheDeuce]

Well if FF is a deal breaker for you then the decision is made. But as I indicated above it's difficult to rationalize taking a FF unit down. The 1Dx adds a lot when shooting football game. It adds little when shooting a blenny. Plus, do you really want to put a $7000 body at risk? Leaks happen, Defective End User Errors are common, especially for us novices. Which unit will sting more if it goes swimming?

And if you're in Edmonton I'm guessing you're flying out to your diving destinations. Every ounce counts with the airlines so taking the 7D over the 1Dx saves some weight for a spare mask or backup computer.

If you end up housing the 1Dx more power to you. I just don't understand why one would go that route.



m.

 

[Tzetsin]

This thread is all about finding out which is the best tool for the job. From all your replies, and other research and brainstorming sessions on my part I think I have to agree that there is very little if any benefit to having the 1dx underwater. All the major advantages of the 1dx on land, simply don't translate under water. The biggest benefit to using the 1dx over any other camera is its extremely good ISO grain. I can use 12500 ISO at the drop of a hat and blow it up to any size I like. Under water, because we must use flash not only for light, but to bring color into the scene, there is no reason to use very high ISOs. The 1Dx also has a high frame rate, but not all that much better than the 7D.

I'll be ordering the housing for the 7D, not the 1Dx... As for weight at the airport... theres no replacement for the 1Dx on land, so I'll not be saving weight by having the 7D in a housing, but weighing MORE because I'll have the 7D AND the 1Dx lol Thats ok though, I always have two bodies with me anyway.

Thanks for all the input folks!!

Jason

 

[SteveInNZ]

I'm not a pro by any means but I do use my astro mod'd 40D as a backup in the same housing as my unmod'd 50D. The bottom line is that there's no advantage or disadvantage to the mod'd camera underwater. The mod extends the red sensitivity out to include H-a, it doesn't make it "more sensitive" to red. You have the same issue of the pink tinge with the daylight temp strobes and you deal with that with a custom w/b as you would on the surface. Anything outside of the strobe range (unless you are really shallow) has no red to speak of, so the mod has no effect.
I think your comment about saving weight is funny. If you are going somewhere remote to dive, it'll probably have dark skies so you'll want to take an EQ mount too.

Steve.

 

[Tzetsin]

Your right about the cam no being more sensitive to reds. I should have thought of that myself. I know in my last post i said i'd be using the 7d under water... but when it came time to pull the pin and make the purchase I just couldnt do it. I'm now waiting for my order of a 1dx housing to be filled. Not sure when it'll show up though as its pretty close to a special order item. just not all that may 1Dx cameras out there, and fewer still that will see service under water. ;D ah well...