Cenotes—cavern diving. Safe for AOW diver?

[jonhall]

Having been 5 years ago, it would probably take a little effort to even figure out who to report it to. Wonder what the facts were about the dive and deaths from 3 ½ years prior at the same site - surely an investigation was completed and a report should then be available from that incident. Seems you would have to find out if the dive op is still in business, if the same people are running the business, if your DM is still working, and which dive organization they are/were affiliated with.

I honestly don't know to whom this should be reported, but it should be reported. It is a violation of the rules there.

Brings up a good point - if there is a violation of rules, what should one do. How many divers on a vacation in Mexico even know there are different rules? If reported immediately after the incident, I would probably have done the following (assuming I survived, was uncomfortable on the dive, and knew it was a violation): tell the DM how I felt and that they should consider who they take diving into a cave, tell the dive shop owner, and if I was really ticked off about it, report it to the organization the dive op is affiliated with. If there is someone who oversees the cave/cavern/cenote, I would inform them also. Who else is there? Would Mexican police take a report and do anything about it?

 

[rick00001967]

I do not remember my thought process but I remember it being a very challenging decision.

when i train new employees at me "real" job, i have always told them "if you have to ask yourself whether you should be doing this.....you just answered your own question".

the same applies to diving. we have all been there.

 

[boulderjohn]

How many divers on a vacation in Mexico even know there are different rules?

Good point. Until someone else tells you, as in a forum like this, you are likely to believe everything was done correctly. That is true everywhere--not just in Mexico.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

No, it is not safe for an AOW diver

 

[Diverlady13]

He did. We did not. I would not have remembered, but I found the photos.


It felt gross reading about the history and connecting the dots.

Years have passed. The shop culture may have changed and these could have been rogue guides. However, I agree with getting history on file so there is at least a chance that, when combined with other data, one could have an indication as to whether such is the case.

I am open to reporting it if anyone knows to whom I should report. Does PADI record such things? DAN?

It's likely too late if it's been years, but if the shop a PADI shop then PADI is probably the best place to ask. Also, the cenotes we have been diving in (10 or 11) all had signs asking divers to report their guides if the guide takes them into the cave system. Obviously that doesn't apply to guides taking certified cave divers into the caves. It's likely too late for that now, but if this ever happens to you again (very unlikely), definitely report it to the cenote owners. Those families that own the lands/cenotes depend on divers and other tours for their livelihood as do the legit cave/cavern guides. Our friend in Mexico says that the legit cave guides that lead cenote cavern dives don't like the rule-breakers. Those irresponsible people are the ones that cause accidents and those are the people that could very well get a cenote shut down.

 

[Hoag]

I did a trip to Akumel as my very first dive trip after getting certified. Although it wasn't the plan when we headed south, the weather meant that most of our diving offshore was cancelled and the trip leader had to look for a "Plan B" that could be put into play immediately. Cenotes were the answer.

The first morning, we met at the dive shop for an introductory briefing on safety protocols, some of the differences to expect and the differences between cave and cavern diving. We did not do any cave diving, only cavern.

We started off with Cenote Ponderosa. It was easy to enter the water, the passageways in the cenote were fairly big and as an added feature, we got to experience a Halocline.

The next day, we dove Cenote Taj Mahal. It was a little more challenging. The passageways between chambers were a little longer and a little smaller but nothing that would be out of the skillset of a diver who had good buoyancy. Divers did have to be more careful not to kick up silt.

Our third (and final) day, we did Cenote Dos Ojos. Again, the passageways connecting the chambers were a little darker, a little longer, and a little tighter. Divers had to be conscious of their buoyancy and their kicking but by now, it was becoming more natural.

Each day was a progression, building on the day before. The local dive shop that we used (I have no idea what the name of it was.) Had one of their cave instructors leading the group and a second one trailing the group.

 

[Norwegian Cave Diver]

As a cave diver it’s always concerning when I read about divers having a negative experience on a cavern dive. Especially when it is the guide that has caused the negative experience. It should be a magical experience. I give examples of highly rated shops that a diver can trust - and people invariably offer “Larry the cave guide” (made that up) as a great guy to dive with. Of all of the accident reports I have read it’s always seems the independent guides are the ones that try to offer you something “special “ that scare or kill people. Look for the big reputable shops that offer training way beyond your skill set. They are in it for the right reason. Knowledge skills training.

 

[Hoag]

As a cave diver it’s always concerning when I read about divers having a negative experience on a cavern dive. Especially when it is the guide that has caused the negative experience. It should be a magical experience. I give examples of highly rated shops that a diver can trust - and people invariably offer “Larry the cave guide” (made that up) as a great guy to dive with. Of all of the accident reports I have read it’s always seems the independent guides are the ones that try to offer you something “special “ that scare or kill people. Look for the big reputable shops that offer training way beyond your skill set. They are in it for the right reason. Knowledge skills training.

That is exactly why I think that I had such a positive experience. Each dive was a little more challenging than the previous dive so we built on the experience we were getting. It was also made clear that the only hard and fast rule is that "Any diver can call off any dive at any time." and the only question that will be asked is "Are you OK?" There was never any pressure to do anything that made anybody uncomfortable.

 

[halocline]

No, it is not safe for an AOW diver

Again, considering the hard fact that every day, all year, for decades, OW divers with AOW or even less training do these guided cavern dives, and survive just fine, a blanket statement that "it is not safe for AOW" is simply not correct. The thousands and thousands of successful dives show otherwise. If you could show that Mexican guided cavern dives have a significantly higher fatality rate than diving in general, then you'd have some validity.

When an instructor or guide breaks rules and takes OW divers into the cave zone, that of course is a much riskier situation, just like anyone that would dive in caves anywhere, for example Florida, without proper training and experience.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Again, considering the hard fact that every day, all year, for decades, OW divers with AOW or even less training do these guided cavern dives, and survive just fine, a blanket statement that "it is not safe for AOW" is simply not correct. The thousands and thousands of successful dives show otherwise. If you could show that Mexican guided cavern dives have a significantly higher fatality rate than diving in general, then you'd have some validity.

When an instructor or guide breaks rules and takes OW divers into the cave zone, that of course is a much riskier situation, just like anyone that would dive in caves anywhere, for example Florida, without proper training and experience.

I believe this is essentially what the wise TSandM (RIP) said in the sticky post at the top of this forum.

I interpreted Capt. Jim's terse comment with a bit of a wink, though if that was his intention he did not let on. As in, "No they are not safe, but," to quote that sticky . . .

When you consider the volume of divers who do the cavern tours each year, the safety record is impressive.