Can a person be uncertified ?

[NorthernShrinkage]

Ok here goes I am a DM so as far as signing off on students and certifying I realy have no power other than making suggestions and voicing my opinions .

We just finished class 4 of a BOW course we have 1 student who took the course as a refresher who wont be doing the OW portion of the course this individual was certified approx 3 years ago and honestly I do not know who certified him or why he was certified . The instructor who I work with said there was no way he would sign off on him but as he already holds a C Card is there anything that can be done shy of sitting him down and saying you diving is not a good idea ?

A little background on this . This individual was on a shop trip with us 3 years ago flooded his mask at 90 ft couldnt clear it and went into full blown panic took out his reg and put his snorkel in and went full bore for the surface . He only made it about 10 feet up before he was grabbed and surfaced under control by 2 others . He is unable to read his guages (learning disability) and truly has difficulties with all skills .Spent a good portion of the course working with him one on one .

I realy dont feel its my place to step up and say hey but I feel someone needs to guess I should just speak to the shop owner and instructor and give them the oppurtunity to do it and if there not willing to I feel I must.

How should I deal with this ?

 

[fisherdvm]

I find it amazing that I meet scuba divers who are not certified. But their friends and buddies get the tank filled for them and dives with them.

Perhaps those intro dives in the tropics get these people introduced, and they never want to spend the time or money to be certified fully.

I know that you can buy a PhD or an MD over seas, why can't you just buy a C card? I was glad to get certified for only $60 years ago in the service. But it still doesn't cost too much more for it today. Is it the cheap factor, the time factor, or what, I don't know?

 

[Meng_Tze]

The instructor who is doing the refresher course should make him aware that diving may not be a good thing for him. But bottom line is, if this person is an adult, he has all right to dive since he is certified. I don't think there is much beyond this.

 

[fisherdvm]

You are right Meng. The quality of scuba instruction probably varied tremendously among instructors and agency. Maybe the guy just needed some good instruction.

 

[Wayfarer2]

If you can look at his C Card the instructors Name and Id number are on the back, on a PADI card

 

[SparticleBrane]

I'm not 100% sure but I believe that GUE can snatch your card if you have a cert with them.

 

[Diver Dennis]

It's not safe, and ridiculous IMO, to let anyone who cannot read his gauges, dive. How could the instructor give him a refresher if the guy is not aware of how much air he has left or how deep he is?

 

[nagel]

I by no means am an expert here, but just thinking what I would do....

I would first have a "heart-to-heart" discussion with the individual and tell him that unless he can improve his skills he really should not be diving. I would then contact the original instructor (if possible) and discuss the observations you seen and see if he would have a discussion with the person. If you know what agency the person was originally certified through, maybe contacting them for guidance. I'm sure they don't want somebody with these type of issues out their carrying their card, but maybe nothing they can do either.

Tough situation and given the probable outcome that their is no way to stop the person from diving because he has paid his money and gotten his c-card. The industry probably needs to address this situation, but how. Do we really want people questioning others (skills) and if there was maybe a way to open up an "investigation" does this open up a huge issue with this.

I'm a Safety Director and I subscribe to the following to keep myself centered, "We always know what we should have done after somebody dies". If this person someday kills themself, can you live with this fact if you did nothing? By posting here, you show that you have some real concern, I applaud you for taking the time and making an effort. There probably is nothing that you can do, but I would atleast have the discussions and contact the certifying agency. You do not want to be looking back someday and saying, "Man, I should have done something". This will eat you up. But, when it comes down to it, people have to responsible for themselves. In my position, I have authority and responsibility to do something. But, for the general public, I can offer them guidance, but in the end they have free will to do what they want to do.

Just my humble 2-cents.

S. Nagel

 

[divad]

I don't understand why you don't just call the agency he was certified with and tell them he can't read his gauges etc.. They can de-certify him and the instructor and you can keep your hands clean.

 

[MB]

Professional ratings can be revoked, but even that takes uncommon efforts. It would take extraordinary resolve to bring a certifying agency to review a recommnedation to remove a basic certification, and I've never heard of it actually happening.

In practice, in the case of gross incompetence, we'd talked a couple of people into signing up for a basic OW course again, and talked a couple of others out of diving.