Buying new BCD - advice appreciated

[Efka76]

I am quite new diver (have less than 30 dives). I was pretty busy in various trainings in order to get knowledge how to properly dive in various situation and got few PADI certifications. Now I am planning to go to Egypt for liveaboard and want to buy BCD. I read quite a lot about various BCS (jacket, wing) and see that they have a different price tag. Finally I choose ScubaPro Hydros Pro BCD but want to ask this community whether this BSC is really for me. My considerations are the following:

1) Mostly I will be flying to my diving locations and, accordingly, I need lightweight BCD. What I read in ScubaPro site, that usually lightweight BCDs are good for travel however, they sacrifice sturdiness and some comfort. ScubaPro Hydros Pro is advertised as BCD which is very sturdy, comfortable and professional. My question is: is it really true or just another advertisement from manufacturer.

2) ScubaPro Hydro Plus is advertised as BCD for life as you can easily change each of component yourself. My question is will it be accessible spare parts for such BCD after more than 10 years.

3) It is advertised as hybrid BCD which combines jacket and wing BCD qualities. Due to trim pockets you can easily maintain vertical position on surface.

4) It is advertised that you will need to put less lead comparing to standard jacket BCDs. This is really important for me. In salt water, wearing 3 mm shorty I was usually using 8 kg / 18 lbs weight belt. I really expect that I will be able to use less weight with this BCD. Also, in ideal case I would like to use integrated weights and get rid of weight belt. How much lead reduction (in kg / lbs) I could expect. Also, can someone enlighten how this integrated weight system works...... I never used BCD with integrated weights, always used weight belt.

My concerns:

1) I never dived with BP/W, hybrid BCD and I am a bit afraid that this ScubaPro Hydros Pro BCD could be too hard to dive as it is advertised for technical divers, instructors. As in golf, there are clubs for amateurs and professionals. in golf amateur usually is not able to properly play pro clubs. I am afraid that this could be a similar case with this BCD.

2) Should I really expect that I will be able to use this BCD for remaining of life (let's say 20-25 years... when I reach pension age) or this is more advertisement gimmick.

3) This BCD is pretty expensive. Are these costs really justifiable? I can afford it but usually before buying more expensive this I like to do thorough analysis.

4) There are options to buy it with Air 2 system or with balanced inflator. Do I understand correctly, that if I buy it with Air 2 system, I will not need to have Octopus as it substitutes Octopus. Is it convenient to use such system or it is better to have standard Octopus on regulator. Also, what does it mean "balanced power inflator"? Could not find it anywhere in product description.

5) Regarding size: I am 186 cm, weight 112 kg. From all descrioptions I see that I would need L size. If someone similar like me uses it, can you comment whether L size or XL size I would need to buy.

If you think that I am too inexperienced for such BCD, please tell me and propose what good BCD I could choose for my experience level. I will be happy to hear all comments and advices.

 

[Blasto]

ScubaPro Hydros Pro is advertised as BCD which is very sturdy, comfortable and professional. My question is: is it really true or just another advertisement from manufacturer.

As far as jacket BCD go, it's a seriously good one. Considerable modularity, back inflation (what they call hybrid), well built. The price is... I'd be cautious about it, because it's still only an in-between solution, not an ultimate one.

For parts after 10 years, it's possible, but it certainly won't be a priority for the manufacturer - they'll have a new hot model then. 10 years is a long time for a jacket BC.

Also, in ideal case I would like to use integrated weights and get rid of weight belt. How much lead reduction (in kg / lbs) I could expect. Also, can someone enlighten how this integrated weight system works...... I never used BCD with integrated weights, always used weight belt.

Just pockets you put weights in.
Can't tell about how much lead you'll save, probably won't be a lot.

1) I never dived with BP/W, hybrid BCD and I am a bit afraid that this ScubaPro Hydros Pro BCD could be too hard to dive as it is advertised for technical divers, instructors. As in golf, there are clubs for amateurs and professionals. in golf amateur usually is not able to properly play pro clubs. I am afraid that this could be a similar case with this BCD.

Most of such advertising is boasting. Few technical divers would voluntarily put on a jacket BCD - the loss of comfort vs BP&W is too significant.

The instructor part is "somewhat". Instructors teaching open water have to use equipment similar to that of their students, and a back inflate is the best compromise they can get (unless they're lucky enough to work for an all-wing shop). So BC like this get a lot of praise as good for instructors - but in practice most just use a BP/W for themselves and a cheap basic jacket for teaching. No point to integrated weights if you have to demonstrate using a belt anyway, and the lack of a cummerbund complicates don/doff demonstration.

The SCUBA equipment market is different from golf. Just about every manufacturer tries to imply their gear to be "technical" or "professional", it doesn't mean much. Tec divers tend to choose the most comfortable gear because it makes diving easier.

In shops that use such, complete novices have no problem using back inflates or wings. Such are simpler and easier to don and doff, easier to dump air from, make it easier to maintain trim position, and just more comfortable. Back inflate is in between. The only reason wrap-around jackets are still around and still used in teaching is that they're safer for people who can't swim, reliably putting them head-up like a life jacket.

2) Should I really expect that I will be able to use this BCD for remaining of life (let's say 20-25 years... when I reach pension age) or this is more advertisement gimmick.

Not likely to be quite that long. Unless you dive very little, like a few vacation dives every couple years. BCD get wear and tear, and, as your diving advances, you'll likely eventually want to upgrade. Also, if your body size changes in either direction, which it might in 20 years, so will your BCD size.

For a BC that truly lasts a lifetime and can be traveled with, that would be a relatively lightweight backplate, a simple webbing harness, a small STA (optional; depends on if you're comfortable adapter-less), and a donut wing with maybe 30 lbs lift (supports singles or doubles, thick suits) or less if sticking to singles or going with a drysuit. Add a soft back if diving in a rashguard only, otherwise bare metal is usually fine.

Given your weight needs, the best plate would actually be a stainless one with lots of cutouts or an I-shape - keeps it light, but avoids the buoyancy of aluminum. Such systems last forever, only the wing bladder and the webbing might eventually wear out, and both will be easy to get hold of. They're also infinitely customizable, you can choose any style of pockets, anything else, put them exactly where you want them. These accessories are a bit pricey for what they are and it adds up, but $900 can buy you a lot of such hardware. The only way one can grow out of this style is going sidemount, which completely changes how things work.

4) There are options to buy it with Air 2 system or with balanced inflator. Do I understand correctly, that if I buy it with Air 2 system, I will not need to have Octopus as it substitutes Octopus. Is it convenient to use such system or it is better to have standard Octopus on regulator.

Is their air2 nearly free (they sometimes were)? Air2s have a bad rep, though they're not really worse than a normal Scubapro inflator. Their unusual button arrangement (on both air2 and normal scubapro) is a concern. They also require a non-standard hose to connect, so you'll need it on your reg set. Some end up still using an octo even with an air2.

 

[rongoodman]

Since you're in Europe, why not look into XDeep? I agree that you would be better off looking into a SS BP and wing.

 

[stuartv]

1) Mostly I will be flying to my diving locations and, accordingly, I need lightweight BCD. What I read in ScubaPro site, that usually lightweight BCDs are good for travel however, they sacrifice sturdiness and some comfort. ScubaPro Hydros Pro is advertised as BCD which is very sturdy, comfortable and professional. My question is: is it really true or just another advertisement from manufacturer.

2) ScubaPro Hydro Plus is advertised as BCD for life as you can easily change each of component yourself. My question is will it be accessible spare parts for such BCD after more than 10 years.

3) It is advertised as hybrid BCD which combines jacket and wing BCD qualities. Due to trim pockets you can easily maintain vertical position on surface.

4) It is advertised that you will need to put less lead comparing to standard jacket BCDs. This is really important for me. In salt water, wearing 3 mm shorty I was usually using 8 kg / 18 lbs weight belt. I really expect that I will be able to use less weight with this BCD. Also, in ideal case I would like to use integrated weights and get rid of weight belt. How much lead reduction (in kg / lbs) I could expect. Also, can someone enlighten how this integrated weight system works...... I never used BCD with integrated weights, always used weight belt.

My concerns:

1) I never dived with BP/W, hybrid BCD and I am a bit afraid that this ScubaPro Hydros Pro BCD could be too hard to dive as it is advertised for technical divers, instructors. As in golf, there are clubs for amateurs and professionals. in golf amateur usually is not able to properly play pro clubs. I am afraid that this could be a similar case with this BCD.

2) Should I really expect that I will be able to use this BCD for remaining of life (let's say 20-25 years... when I reach pension age) or this is more advertisement gimmick.

3) This BCD is pretty expensive. Are these costs really justifiable? I can afford it but usually before buying more expensive this I like to do thorough analysis.

4) There are options to buy it with Air 2 system or with balanced inflator. Do I understand correctly, that if I buy it with Air 2 system, I will not need to have Octopus as it substitutes Octopus. Is it convenient to use such system or it is better to have standard Octopus on regulator. Also, what does it mean "balanced power inflator"? Could not find it anywhere in product description.

5) Regarding size: I am 186 cm, weight 112 kg. From all descrioptions I see that I would need L size. If someone similar like me uses it, can you comment whether L size or XL size I would need to buy.

If you think that I am too inexperienced for such BCD, please tell me and propose what good BCD I could choose for my experience level. I will be happy to hear all comments and advices.

I am an open water instructor and a tech diver. Despite that, I would say that I am not really that experienced. I have only been diving about 3.5 years and have less than 200 dives (not counting the many, many pool sessions). So, take what I have to say, well, for whatever you think it's worth.

I bought my own BCD immediately after I finished my initial OW training. The BCD I bought was actually a BP/W. I used only a BP/W for all my diving from then up until about 2 months ago. I currently own 3 back plates and something like 5 wings, which I have been using for single tank and doubles.

About 2 months ago, I bought a Hydros Pro to use when I am teaching. I bought it for exactly the reason @Blasto said - to have something that would be matching what my students are wearing, so that I can demonstrate skills like BCD remove/replace and weight pocket remove/replace in the same way that my students will do those skills. At my shop, we team teach classes, so prior to getting my Hydros, I had always been relying on another instructor to demonstrate the BCD skills.

Now that I have been using it, I like the Hydros so much that I am currently planning to use it for all my single tank diving - replacing my BP/W even for my own personal "fun" dives.

To address your questions:

It is somewhat lightweight. Not as light as some "travel" BCDs, but definitely lighter than a lot of other BCDs out there. I weighed mine with both waist belts and posted the weights somewhere here on SB, if you want to search for my post to get exact numbers. It also seems to be pretty sturdy, but I haven't had mine long enough to consider its sturdiness as well-tested. Fortunately, it IS modular in design, so if a piece does break, I should be able to replace that piece fairly inexpensively. It is also very comfortable. My single tank BP/W is also very comfortable. I don't regard either one as more comfortable than the other. But, if I were diving in just board shorts, I know which one I would rather put on - the Hydros. Donning a bare metal plate directly against my skin usually means a moment of that "cold" shock that you get any time you put bare metal against your skin. Or, if it has been sitting out in the sun, it could be very hot metal directly against your skin. The Hydros' monoprene back plate and shoulder straps are never going to have that hot or cold sensation.

Will you still be able to get parts for the Hydros in 10 years? Who can really say? But, I do know that ScubaPro made a VERY large investment in the molds for the Hydros parts. They have something like 8 different molds just for the different sizes and shapes of shoulder straps, with some being for men and others being shaped specifically for women. I also know that you can still buy parts for many ScubaPro regulators that are WAY more than 10 years old. So, I am feeling pretty comfortable that I will still be able to get parts for my Hydros in 10 years. But, as I said, who can really say what will happen in 10 years?

It does have weight pockets for the front and trim pockets on the back. So, you can indeed weight yourself with as much as will fit in the trim pockets on the back, which will help with floating vertically on the surface.

I don't have any real experience with other integrated BCDs (i.e. non-BP/W BCDs). But, the Hydros definitely appears to be neutral in the water. With a 3/2mm full suit on, in the pool (so, fresh water), and an almost-empty (less than 500 psi, actually) AL80, I need 6# of weight, with the Hydros, to be able to descend from the surface (again, with a nearly empty AL80 and a full 3/2mm wetsuit on). And, again, let me be clear, 6# enables me to descend from the surface against the full buoyancy of my wetsuit, not just hold a safety stop. With a steel 100, I need no weight at all. I am very happy with the buoyancy characteristics of the Hydros.

(continued...)

 

[stuartv]

Regarding the integrated weight system:

The Hydros comes with 2 different waist belts. One has weight pockets built into it. The other is called their travel waist belt and it has no weight pockets. For myself, if traveling to somewhere with warm water, I will only take the travel waist belt, as it has no bulk and I can fit all the weight I would need in just the trim weight pockets on the back. It only takes 2 or 3 minutes and no tools to change between the 2 waist belts.

The weight pockets on the "non-travel" waist belt are not quick-release in the same sense as many other BCDs have. There is no handle to just grab and yank in order to ditch weights. Each side has a quick release buckle that you have to squeeze at the top and bottom to release it and then pull the actual weight pouch out. It's very easy and very secure. I feel like, as "integrated weight systems" go, there is probably no other system that is more secure against the possibility of accidentally dropping your weights.

The weight pouch itself is pretty big and will hold (I would guess) at least 2 x 5 pound weights on each side. The pouch has a 2" webbing strap with a plastic D-ring sewn to it. The webbing strap also has the male portion of the quick release buckle that holds the weight pouch in the weight pocket. Because the weight pocket is made of monoprene, it holds its shape even when the weight pouch is removed. And, the weight pocket has no tension on it, even when the waist belt is fastened and cinched tight. So, it is very easy to slide the weight pouch into the weight pocket and then fasten the quick release buckle with one hand, even when in the water with the Hydros being worn.

Ease of use, compared to a BP/W? There is nothing about the Hydros that makes it friendly for pros or tech divers and less friendly even to brand new divers. It is a very easy BCD for anyone to use. It is WAY easier to get it fitted to you than a BP/W. It is also a little more convenient to use, simply because there is no crotch strap to worry about connecting and there is no need for a crotch strap. A properly fitted BP/W needs a crotch strap - the Hydros does not. The Hydros is also more stable in the water than a BP/W. With a BP/W, if you roll over onto your side, then roll back to flat and horizontal, the BP/W will shift just a tiny bit and then you can easily shift it back when you get back to flat/horizontal. This isn't even something I really noticed until I tried something different. In contrast, the monoprene material of the Hydros has kind of a grippy feel to it. Plus, once you don it, you cinch down the waist belt and shoulder straps, so they end up a little tighter than how you'd probably run a BP/W. When I roll onto my side with the Hydros, it does not move at all. It's only a tiny difference to a properly-fitted BP/W, but it is a difference that I can feel.

Can you expect to use it for 20 - 25 years? Who can say? Again I have to agree with @Blasto. If you want to be SURE of still being able to use your BCD in 25 years, get a BP/W. You may have to replace some webbing in that time. You may have to replace the wing portion in that time. With a BP/W, you will not be dependent on any one manufacturer for any parts. With the Hydros, if you get a big hole in the air cell in 20 years, you will be dependent on ScubaPro still making a suitable replacement. Maybe they will be. Or maybe they won't.

Is it worth the money? That is a decision only you can make. I work for a dive shop. I got my Hydros at a significant discount. If I had to pay full price, there is no way I would buy one. But, some would say I am a cheap-ass. I would describe myself as very value-conscious. If I had to pay full price, I would just stick with a good (and inexpensive) BP/W. A $900 Hydros versus a $300 BP/W? I'll take the $300 option, thank you. The Hydros is awesome. But, a good BP/W is really, really good and the extra money would not be worth it - to ME. That said, I think the Hydros is the nicest of all the integrated BCDs that I have seen. My shop sells ScubaPro, Aqualung, Apeks, Hollis, Atomic, Zeagle, Oceanic, Aeris, Dive Rite, and Tusa BCDs (that I can remember right now). I like the Hydros the best of anything from any of those brands - but that is based on looking at them in the shop and/or online. As I said at the beginning, the Hydros is the only non-BP/W I have really actually used. Anyway... If you want "the best", you expect to pay more for it. Personally, I am okay with "good". I don't need "the best" - for a BCD - when it costs that much more.

I do not like Air2s or "safe seconds" or whatever you want to call them. I think having a "normal" octopus is safer and it's also better logistically. I bought my Hydros with a "balanced power inflator" and that is what I would recommend to anyone else. The Balanced Power Inflator is just ScubaPro's name for their own low pressure power inflator. It works just like any other regular BCD inflator. If/when mine eventually starts to get sticky, I will replace it with an inexpensive, generic power inflator. Regarding being safer, well that is a long conversation with many threads already here on SB about the subject. I will just say that if I ever need to give air to someone, I don't want to give them the reg in my mouth and then be stuck trying to breathe from a lesser-performing reg that is on a too-short hose and that I also have to use to control my buoyancy at the same time.

I am 6' 1" and about 240 pounds. I reckon that works out to 185cm and 109kg. I wear a Men's size Large Hydros and I think it is the perfect size for me. When I wear my drysuit with thick undergarments, my Hydros still has a fair bit of extra webbing in the waist belt and a little bit of extra in the shoulder straps, and just a little bit in the chest strap. I tried on an XL before I bought my L and it would work for me, but there was just no reason to have the extra allowance for a bigger person. The L is just right, for me.

 

[Efka76]

@stuartv

Sir, thank you very much for your response!!!! I could not imagine to get so thorough answer from actual user. Few more questions:

1) Is it possible to use standard lead weights (which you can find on diving boats) in these integrated weight pockets.
2) What about swimming at surface? In previous comment it was written that jacket type BCD are better for not so good swimmers (actually i consider myself as not a good swimmer despite the fact that i am really physically fit). Is it hard to maintain vertical position on a surface with this BCD comparing to other standard kacket type BCD.

 

[stuartv]

Yes, you can use any weights, hard or soft, in the integrated weigh pockets or in the trim pockets on the back.

Some people say that it is hard to float on the surface in a BP/W. They say it pushes you forward, to push your face in the water. I have not had that problem with a BP/W, and I don't have it with the Hydros, so take my comments on that for what they are worth.

As for actually swimming (versus just floating), if that's what you really meant, I REALLY think it does not matter.

Consider this: Your air cell (and your wetsuit, to a smaller degree) is what is making you positively buoyant on the surface. If all that lift is on your back, and you put a bunch of lead on your front, then that is likely to make you want to tip forward, right? That is why a jacket style BCD is regarded as being easier to float in, in a vertical position. It puts the positive buoyancy all around your body, instead of just behind you.

There are a couple of things you can do that will make a BP/W or back inflate BCD work well for you. One is to put more of any lead that you carry on your back. E.g. if you need 20 pounds, put 2 x 5# weights in the trim pockets on the back and the other 2 x 5# in the front, instead of putting it all in front. If you are weighted properly, diving in warm water, you probably do not need to have any ditchable weight at all. But, if you want to have some ditchable weight, put the minimum amount that you are comfortable with in the front and put the rest in the back.

Also, when you are floating on the surface, don't try to make yourself so positive that even your shoulders are coming out of the water. If you try to be that high out of the water, a back inflate BCD or a BP/W probably will make you want to tip forward. If you just get yourself so that just your head is out of the water and maybe not even TOO high out of the water, floating vertical is easy.

Last, many people find that it is easy and comfortable to actually lean back and let yourself kind of float on top of your BCD. If you do that, you can get yourself much higher out of the water while still being comfortable. And, floating on your back, facing away from the direction you want to go, makes it easy to fin yourself in the direction you want to go, if you need to do a surface swim.

 

[Blasto]

2) What about swimming at surface? In previous comment it was written that jacket type BCD are better for not so good swimmers (actually i consider myself as not a good swimmer despite the fact that i am really physically fit). Is it hard to maintain vertical position on a surface with this BCD comparing to other standard kacket type BCD.

The safety margin of wrap-around jackets mostly applies to people unfamiliar enough with the water that they might panic or forget how to swim under stress. Wrap-arounds are literal lifejackets, so inflating one secures the wearer; extra safety if a literal non-swimmer does make it to open water.

Using back inflate, whether wing or hybrid, has nothing to do with how good your stroke technique is, you just need to control yourself on the surface enough to keep your face up. I'll leave specifics of the Hydros to @stuartv (I only tried it out a bit), but it really shouldn't be something most divers need to worry about.

Given your good fitness and long-term diving plans, your choice should be between back inflate (among which Hydros is very good) and BP/W styles, not wrap-around and back inflate.

 

[Efka76]

@ stuartv

I read many reviews everywhere about this BCD and all of them were positive, however, these were initial reviews after people actually tried this BCD. However, in SB forum I also found some reviews where people mentioned that Scubapro Hydros Pro BCD is very fragile and there were rip-offs of shoulders straps from monoprene back. Could you please comment of this and how many approximate dives you already did with BCD.

This is pretty expensive purchase and I really want to make sure that this stuff is going to work.... I am mainly planning to used it with AL80 12 l tanks and maybe with 15 l aluminum tanks.

 

[stuartv]

@Efka76 I have used mine for 2 weekends of teaching in the pool and 1 weekend of teaching in the quarry. I have been using it mostly with a steel 100 tank. I have picked my fully assembled rig up by one shoulder strap to swing it onto my back several times. No problems so far. Even when using it at the quarry, with 18 pounds of lead in the pockets (to use with my drysuit).

I haven't had it long enough to really say much about the durability, though. Any BCD should handle 3 weekends of diving without problems.

I talked to a ScubaPro rep shortly after I got mine and he confirmed that they had redesigned the shoulder straps once after they came out and then, he thought, they had actually done a second update to them.

I am hopeful (not confident, but hopeful), that if mine has a weak point, ScubaPro will take care of it under warranty and the new part(s) will be redesigned to have no further problems.

I also think that the modular design means that even if I do break a part and it's after the warranty runs out, I should be able to replace the broken part fairly inexpensively. I haven't price individual parts for the Hydros, but I know that the individual parts for their regulators are quite inexpensive.