Brand new to Double Hose diving

[ffdiver]

Hi all,

I've already posted this same question on VDH and have received some awesome answers.

This morning I pulled the trigger on a Royal aquamaster (I am giddy with scuba nerd excitement), which is reported to be in working condition. But we will see. I have a friend who owns a shop and is an aqualung dealer who is more than willing to help me check the reg and all that good stuff.

So, being completely new to Double hose diving my question to y'all is what should I buy to keep in stock for a save a dive kit and what should be my obvious upgrades and what are some upgrades to consider but arn't 100% needed.

My plan of attack when I receive the reg is to open it up and service/rebuild it as needed. I want to be able to use this reg with my backplate and wing and an SPG so I was going to purchase the Phoenix. but others have mentioned using a banjo and the hooka port? Is there anything else I need? HP Seats? duckbills? New Hoses? New mouthpiece?

I'm not a stickler on resorting it back to original, I'm looking for reliable and super easy since I have nearly zero experience with servicing regulators and the like but would like to give it a try.

I'm also debating between yellow or black hoses. If I could find red it would be a no brainer.

So what should be my plan of attack and shopping list be?

 

[tbone1004]

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/members/herman-57.html

That is your best friend through this. Herman is one of the best when it comes to this stuff. He'll be able to advise you on everything, and probably has most of the parts you'd need himself. Shoot him a PM, tell him I sent you, and you'll be on the road to blissful recreational diving. Beware though, if you're diving with it in warm water, he'll push you to dive it without a wing which is the most liberating feeling in the world

 

[Nemrod]

You should ask your questions on vdh. Since most of the parts and expertise for double hose regulators resides there, in this case the horse is the source (Mr. Ed)

An "AL dealership" is not a likely source for expertise on a Royal Aqua Master, nor parts other than those in the first stage (Conshelf, Titan, Legend). Be very careful with supposed experts that were in the Navy etc. They may have been in the Navy but that does not make them a good regulator repair mechanic.

If you plan to dive the regulator you need:

First stage rebuild
Second stage rebuild or conversion to HPR second stage
Cage valves and probably a soft new silicone mouthpiece assembly
Soft, new silicone hoses or new reproduction neoprene hoses
New silicone diaphragm
Conversion to a case band clamp if not already so fitted
DBE, duck bill valve eliminator, much improved over the old duckbill valve
Hookah port adapter to provide LP air
Banjo bolt adapter for HP source for a spg and to do that most likely a longer yoke

As far as I know red hoses are available only for the Argonaut Kraken, vdh is the only source and can answer your questions.

Then you will need to alter your diving ensemble and techniques to properly accommodate and achieve the best performance from your double hose regulator which means more than likely your current BC and backplate will not be suitable.

N

 

[Tug]

IMO, the essential upgrades would be the Duckbill Eliminator, HPR and new diaphragm, band clamp and new hose mushroom valves. If you want to hook up a low pressure inflator hose, you'll need either a phoenix or hookah port adaptor. If you want to use the banjo fitting, you'll need to make sure that you have a long yoke, as the short yoke doesn't have the room for a banjo fitting.

this is from Herman form a similar thread that answers most of your questions:

Sorry for the delay, been DH diving on Bonaire with Luis, Simonbeans and ScotttyD.

To clean the hoses and mouthpiece toss them in the washing machine with some towels and a little bleach, although if you intend to dive the reg much, new hoses and mouthpiece are a good idea, even the best old ones are a lot stiffer than the new silocone ones. Reguardless of how the main diaphragm looks, replace it. Like the hoses, even the best OEM one is no where near as good as a new silicone one, the performance gain with a new diaphragm is considerable. The original style (has tabs) diaphragm can be reused with an HPR so it's not a wasted part, the newer one intended for the HPR is slightly better but it will not work with the standard second stage. In addition to the other parts, you will need to replace the duckbill or install a duckbill eliminator. The DBE is $10 more than a duckbill, it is easier to install correctly (db can be a pain to get right) and it works better to boot. Here would be my suggestion for your parts list with comments.

Main diaphragm- reguardless of original ones condition, performance gain is well worth the money
Duckbill or Duckbill Eliminator- you must do one or the other, I have yet to see an original DB in usable condition
Service kit - the kit does not include a HP seat, you may can resurface yours but replacements are $15, not a bad idea to at least have one on hand
Hose valves - another must replace, again none from the day are good enough to reuse
Hose clamps- Can't tell about the mouthpiece ones but the can end ones are the very old model. Odds are they are brittle,you need to replace them.

Nice to have parts
Band clamp- those C clips are a PITA to remove and replace, it best done with special tools. For any reg you intend to dive it is a must have IMO
Hoses and mouthpiece- while those may apprear good, no OEM ones are as soft as the repro silicone ones

Tools for the job - most you can work around but it does make the job more difficult, esp the first time it's appart after 40-50 years

nozzle assembly tool- HP nozzle assembly is not too bad on the DAs but RAMs, Phoenixes and Cyclones are a huge PITA to do without one
body ring tool- removes the main body ring
body wrench - holds the main body during disassembly/ assembly
hookah port adapter- not actually a tool but you must have some way of checking and setting IP. This adapter converts the hookah port to a standard 3/8 LP port to which you can connect an IP guage, this part is a must have.

 

[Nemrod]

And since you mentioned red hoses, here, for your red hose fix:

On the old square label RAMs, I like yellow hoses with black or yellow mouthpiece, the swept type mouthpiece, not the straight one:

Long yoke with hookah adapter and three way:

Phoenix conversion:

Luis designed and vintage inspired plate:

N

 

[ffdiver]

I think I'm digging the yellow hoses

 

[herman]

Thank Lewis, that saved me a lot of typing.
Looking at the photos, 2 things jump out at me, first off, those are Dacor hoses..real POS's so they have to go. Another option for a mouthpiece is the Voit hourglass. Since you don't care if it's original, I personally find it a much more comfortable design and use them on all my regs except the Kraken. You can get silicone reproductions at "The Scuba Museum". You will also need mouthpiece valves cages, valves and hose clamps, all of which are being reproduced by VDH. Hose color is up to you, personally I like yellow hoses with black mouthpieces except on blue color cans in which case I like gray hoses with black mouthpieces.

The next thing is the yoke. Like I told you on VDH, you must have a long yoke to use a banjo, that is a short yoke so you will have to replace it if you intend to use a banjo. I would suggest you add an HPR to your reg. It is a lot easier to set up than the original second stage and it performs a lot better to boot.

And finally, as Swimjim told you, DH regs dive a little different and if possible, it's a good idea to get some help from some one WHO ACTUALLY DIVES THE REGS on a regular basis. Keep an eye on VHD, there should soon be some talk of an annual DH trip called Sand Dog . It is usually held in March to April and most likely it will be in Fla this year. It will give you a chance to meet a lot of the active DH divers, put faces with a lot of the members you have met on VDH and see how DH regs should be dove...plus we have a lot of fun.

 

[ffdiver]

OK, so now that I know I have a short Yoke, the phoenix nozzle it is.

The hoses are probably going to have to be changed out along with the mouthpiece. I'm eying the yellow ones.

If I get the HPR and Phoenix, will I still need the service kit being that I'll be changing out most of the second and first stage?

 

[simonbeans]

Simply, no. Phoenix comes ready to install. Save yourself a bit of grief. Send your reg to Bryan and tell him what you want and he will send it back, post haste, in ready to dive condition. Problems solved.

 

[ffdiver]

I thought of doing that and it may just end up being cheaper in the long run but I would like to learn a bit about it though