BP/W setup for fresh water & steel cylinder

[corb33]

Hi.
I am quite new diver with ~10 dives, but I have tek ambitions already and would like to learn to dive with proper BCD(meaning BP/W). I am reading this forum and just googling for the past few days, but I still ain't sure about the setup I need for (mostly) fresh, cold water dives in 5mm suit with a single 12l(maybe, rarely 10l or 15l) steel cylinder.
I am looking at https://www.divegearexpress.com/bcs/hogarthian.shtml setups and I am currently contemplating something like DR Voyager EXP Wing (35 lbs) + SS BP without STA. Btw, I am quite fit although not skinny guy at 187 cm(6' 3") and 83kgs (183lbs). Is it a good choice for my case? Isn't this wing too big? What about SS plate? Could AL plate be better for my case? Any advice is welcome.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Hi.
I am quite new diver with ~10 dives, but I have tek ambitions already and would like to learn to dive with proper BCD(meaning BP/W). I am reading this forum and just googling for the past few days, but I still ain't sure about the setup I need for (mostly) fresh, cold water dives in 5mm suit with a single 12l(maybe, rarely 10l or 15l) steel cylinder.
I am looking at https://www.divegearexpress.com/bcs/hogarthian.shtml setups and I am currently contemplating something like DR Voyager EXP Wing (35 lbs) + SS BP without STA. Btw, I am quite fit although not skinny guy at 187 cm(6' 3") and 83kgs (183lbs). Is it a good choice for my case? Isn't this wing too big? What about SS plate? Could AL plate be better for my case? Any advice is welcome.

The plate you need is a function of required buoyancy, and that's a function of the buoyancy of:

1) You (probably neutral to slightly negative in fresh water)

2) Your suit. Best to test your suit, but a 5mm in fresh water is likely 8-12 lbs

3) Your cylinders, you have provided no information on the full and empty buoyancy of your tanks. For the sake of this example I'll assume they are about -2 lbs empty. *Look it up for your specific cylinders*

A typical SS plate and hanress will be about -6 lbs, and your reg will be about -2, add in a tank that's -2 empty and you being maybe -1 and you have 11 lbs of things that don't float, not bad if your suit is +11 or greater.

Not so good if your 5mm suit is +8, you are already overweighted. In that case a lightweight plate, aluminum or kydex, or a buoyant tank (al 80) will solve the overweighting problem.

The wing you need function of the max negative of your rig, and the buoyancy of your suit.

If you have a SS plate, reg, harness and full steel tank your rig will be about - 20 lbs and your suit remains *maybe* +12 lbs. Neither of these make a 35 lbs wing necessary.

With an alum 80 tank and or a Kydex back plate your rig would be in the 10-14 lbs max negative range, and again your suit is +12. That makes a much smaller wing a reasonable choice. 17 to 20 lbs of lift is enough.

Keep in mind the solution to being over weighted is never a larger wing. Changing the components so you aren't over weighted is the correct approach.

Tobin

 

[tbone1004]

listen to what he said, he's the guru. He also sells some of the best gear out there. Shoot him an email directly and order whatever he recommends, you won't regret it

 

[corb33]

Thank you for the advice. I didn't specified a model of the cylinder, because I am planning to rent them for some time, before buying my own, and in this part of Europe almost everyone is dealing with steel cylinders of various sizes, AL cylinders are somehow (more) rare.

One more question then. The one which bothers me still a bit. As I see, the main advantage of BP/W setup is modularity. Therefore it's important to be able to change components. Are there some standards to which component producers adhere? Can I buy one part, let's say, at DSS and another one at dive gear express? Or, am I committing myself to one particular brand, when I am buying some specific wing and/or backplate?

 

[NAM001]

Yes you can. More importantly the BP/W is a platform that mounts your gear in the right position on your body. Your body center is in the mid chest. Given that if you put on a weight belt it will not be mid chest, it will be on the hips which will lever you out of trim. with the BPW you put the weight on the plate and there fore all lifts and weights stack upon each other as opposed to lift at the shoulders and weight at the feet. Overly simplistic perhaps but the is the basic idea/goal.

Thank you for the advice. I didn't specified a model of the cylinder, because I am planning to rent them for some time, before buying my own, and in this part of Europe almost everyone is dealing with steel cylinders of various sizes, AL cylinders are somehow (more) rare.

One more question then. The one which bothers me still a bit. As I see, the main advantage of BP/W setup is modularity. Therefore it's important to be able to change components. Are there some standards to which component producers adhere? Can I buy one part, let's say, at DSS and another one at dive gear express? Or, am I committing myself to one particular brand, when I am buying some specific wing and/or backplate?

 

[tbone1004]

the only limitation is with certain single tank wings on certain backplates. All doubles wings will go on all backplates, Dive Rite standardized the 11" bolt spacing 20+ years ago. With hard backplates if you choose to use a single tank adapter you should be able to use just about any singles wing on just about any backplate. This is the because some backplates do not have cam band slots, some wings don't have cam band slots, and if both do they may not be in the same place as that is not standardized. With doubles or single tank adapters/STA's this is a nonissue as they bolt to the plate through the mounting holes. Almost all single tank wings have grommets for this as you usually sex bolt them to the plate if not using a STA to keep them from moving around.

Harnesses are universal for the most part. There's really not much you can specify here, so they're all basically the same. For the one piece harnesses the only difference will be the size of the D-rings, and stiffness of the webbing. For the "fancy" harnesses, they still attach to the backplates pretty universally so not much to screw up there.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Thank you for the advice. I didn't specified a model of the cylinder, because I am planning to rent them for some time, before buying my own, and in this part of Europe almost everyone is dealing with steel cylinders of various sizes, AL cylinders are somehow (more) rare.

Cylinder buoyancy characteristics impact the choice of components for your BP&W. Due a little research. I expect you will find the commonly available tanks have fairly similar empty buoyancy numbers.

One more question then. The one which bothers me still a bit. As I see, the main advantage of BP/W setup is modularity. Therefore it's important to be able to change components. Are there some standards to which component producers adhere? Can I buy one part, let's say, at DSS and another one at dive gear express? Or, am I committing myself to one particular brand, when I am buying some specific wing and/or backplate?

One can play mix and match with some BP&W components. For doubles (twins) there is almost complete compatibility.

Less so for single tank rigs. My advice is just like somebody buying their first personal computer; buy a complete system from a single vendor.

You know it will work together as intended, and often you save money via a discounted "package deal" This also gives you a single contact for product support.

It's tough when somebody "gets a great deal" on a brand XX plate, then buys a DSS wing, and brand Y harness kit and keeps calling me for advice on how to set up a combination I may have never seen.

Once you have some experience with how the various parts of a BP&W work together you will be better equipped to consider other alternatives.

Tobin

 

[ams511]

As I see, the main advantage of BP/W setup is modularity. Therefore it's important to be able to change components. Are there some standards to which component producers adhere? Can I buy one part, let's say, at DSS and another one at dive gear express? Or, am I committing myself to one particular brand, when I am buying some specific wing and/or backplate?

The advantage of modularity is somewhat overstated. As with most hobbies there is equipment creep and people own multiple rigs. One for doubles, one for singles, a travel rig, etc. If you are using a single tank adapter, then you can mix and match most wings and plates because the spacing of the holes on the backplate are standardized on 11". If you don't use an STA then you need to make sure the slots for the tank bands on the plate line up with the slots on the wing. Some wings such as the Dive Rite can use any plate because the slots are wide, Oxycheq is the same. Others such as Hollis require an exact match.

The DSS is more of a "system" than other brands. If you purchase it then you should buy the complete package in order to get the full advantage.