BP/W & Long Hose In a PADI IE Exam

[Hawkwood]

Hawkwood, I thought I did say that someone might spit out their reg when in full-blown panic...

Damn, yes you did. That's what I get for "skimming". Sorry.

 

[boulderjohn]

I saw one case of a regulator being discarded during panic, and I heard about another case. I have a theory about what causes it.

In the case I witnessed, I was a pretty new instructor, and a student was making his first descent into the deep end of the pool. He was having a lot of trouble equalizing. His head was about 3 feet below the surface as he worked at it, with me right in front of him. Suddenly, and without any warning whatsoever, he ripped the regulator out of his mouth and started thrashing. When we talked about it, he had no memory of what had happened. He was surprised to learn that he had thrown out his regulator. He said he was prone to unexpected panic attacks in his regular life. I asked him about the circumstances, and he said they came when he was working hard to solve some sort of a problem. I asked him if he held his breath at such times, and he said, yes, he did tend to hold his breath when concentrating on something.

The case I did not witness was a nephew's mother-in-law. The was an experienced diver who suddenly (and for no perceptible reason) panicked at depth, discarded her regulator, and bolted to the surface. She died. The autopsy showed she had had a heart attack. In fact, it showed she had had a couple recent heart attacks that had gone untreated.

The physiology of panic usually involves a buildup of CO2. It is often associated with improper breathing. I am sure my student panicked and discarded his regulator because he had been holding his breath while trying to equalize. Eventually the CO2 brought him to panic and the illusion that his regulator was not supplying him with air. I am sure my nephew's mother-in-law's heart attack gave her a similar feeling. I know that when my mother had such an event during the night, she opened a window and stuck her head out, shouting that she could not breathe and needed air.

When I got ski racing lessons, I was told repeatedly how important it was to remember to breathe regularly while going through the gates. CO2 buildup, we were told emphatically, was not good for our performance.

I now focus on getting my students breathing correctly from the very beginning of their first time under water. I stress especially the need for proper exhalation to remove the CO2. My panicked student was positively excited when I presented that theory. He said it made sense. He finished the class with confidence not only that he would not panic while diving again, but that he would no longer do it in his surface life as well.

 

[danvolker]

Here is another possibility for a percentage of new divers....I have seen many new divers on charter boats, that surface, often low on air, but not out....and their normal first move at the surface, is to get their mask up on their forehead, and their reg out of their mouth...some begin talking immediately like this...,.They may get yelled at by their instructor a few times for putting their mask on their forehead...but then some are told they can put the mask on the back of their head, so the "fix" for the issue remains absent.

If this reg out of mouth and mask off behavior becomes normal for them, should they ascend and be OOA at the surface, they can fail to have enough gas to get their BC to RAFT them up to a high vertical position that they can safely assume this "reg out of mouth" position with.......all it takes is to have a WAVE WASH OVER THEM like this, and for them to inhale water....then full fledged panic can begin...

So....
Back in the good ole days, in the 70's, NAUI and PADI would have you come up with your "near empty tank" ( OR EMPTY), and immediately switch to your snorkel at the surface....then, you remained face down, sometimes looking up for the boat or for your shore destination( if a beach dive)...but you were as safe as a freediver like this...meaning you should be ABSOLUTELY SAFE ON THE SURFACE...

 

[Pavao]

.....scuba can be just an extension of freediving.....when the tank runs out, you can still be freediving....so in this situation, when one of us is now freediving with the tank on our back....

This seems like a great quote to add to ones signature line, WTF did you just say here?

Seriously, can you explain why on earth you would freedive wearing scuba gear? And why are you with a tank with no air strapped to your back?????

 

[danvolker]

This seems like a great quote to add to ones signature line, WTF did you just say here?

Seriously, can you explain why on earth you would freedive wearing scuba gear? And why are you with a tank with no air strapped to your back?????

So you have never come up from a dive, and found the boat still far away? When this happens, I tend to make the best of it, by continuing to enjoy what is below me....what I WENT OUT on the boat to see underwater.

Does the tank limit what you can do for drops? Sure.....but I am not suggesting this as a real freediving session...just suggesting that in the tropics, there is still plenty to see, and you are still capable of seeing some incredible life someone with their head out of the water will miss....tons of baitfish, mantas, sail fish, too much to cover here, can be seen just under the surface.

Moreover, in the context of this discussion, the diver that uses the snorkel can be expected to become more functional in the water, whatever the conditions, than one that relies on a "life vest of sorts".

 

[ams511]

If Peter had posted that they don't like using a snorkel because they have zero to see when they are on the surface, and because the cold water forces them to be wearing gear that streamlines them about as well as a big cement truck---I would not have made any arguments. I keep hearing that PADI is wrong to mandate the snorkel, and that divers reaching the surface SHOULD swim on their backs....I think it is one thing to suggest this given the anti-streamlining and low vis, and quite another to say this as a general rule that would have to be applied as well to the tropics.

PADI is wrong to mandate the snorkel, because a snorkel is not beneficial for all dives. In fact in some environments (cave diving) it could be a detriment as an entanglement hazard. Why say you need a snorkel on every dive, when in fact the dive plan doesn't call for it? Especially if it needs to be worn on the mask strap.

Also I do not see the connection between a snorkel and swimming on one's back. When swimming on the back using a back inflate bc, the diver is above the lift. If swimming prone then the diver is below the lift, with the weight of the tanks pushing him down. Which position is better and more streamline?

Dan you are an experienced diver, Peter should not need to explain to you every bit of difference between cold water and tropical diving. You know the viz is better, exposure protection less, etc., in tropical diving.

 

[boulderjohn]

PADI only "mandates" a snorkel on recreational training dives. It has no power to mandate anything on your personal dives. In its technical diving program, it says that carrying a snorkel may or may not be beneficial, depending upon the dive.

 

[RJP]

PADI only "mandates" a snorkel on recreational training dives. It has no power to mandate anything on your personal dives. In its technical diving program, it says that carrying a snorkel may or may not be beneficial, depending upon the dive.

Neither do they "mandate" that it be worn on the mask strap... even during recreational training dives.

---------- Post added March 8th, 2015 at 06:28 PM ----------

Be ready for it. Suprised the hell out of me when it happened as they bolted to the surface.

All I could think after was "holy crap, this really does happen".

Was working with a very experienced instructor a few years ago who said the same thing when we had a student spit and bolt. He went about ten years before he saw it happen that day.

 

[MikkelBC]

Has anyone done this or see this done during a PADI IE?

Yes, I just passed the PADI IE last weekend in a BP/W long hose setup. I did change to a regular vest BCD for Rescue exercise 7, on the request of some of the other candidates who thought it might be too difficult to remove if I was acting as their victim (they threatened to cut my harness!). These were candidates from other schools, because the ones I trained with were perfectly able to remove my harness during training.