BP/W for Young Diver
- Thread starter Skulmoski
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Skulmoski
Contributor
I picked up a Dive Rite Trans Pac XT for my girl. Lamar was at the Dive Middle East Exhibition in Dubai and set up the system. I had a good chat with Lamar about his kids program, product quality, manufacturing, etc. I can see more Dive Rite products in our future! Thanks Lamar. Pleasure to meet you at the Diver's Down booth.
And thanks to all who helped me with their comments in this thread. You guys rock!
GJS
And thanks to all who helped me with their comments in this thread. You guys rock!
GJS
Exactly, as I have said before, Dive Rite product line is superior to DSS for sure. The people in charge of Dive Rite are light years ahead of the folks at the other place.
cool_hardware52
Contributor
You have repeatedly made this claim, and I have repeatedly asked for specifics.
Again I will ask, How *Specifically* are DSS products inferior to Dive Rite or any other brand of Back Plate and Wing?
Tobin
teknitroxdiver
Contributor
I get the feeling you have some kind of personal agenda against DSS. I've literally never heard a single other person make this claim. And as an owner of both brands, I know from personal experience you're wrong.
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I taught my Son to dive, and decided on a BP/W for him; he is 13 years old.
A BP/W is easily adjustable and able to fit most divers.
For kids it makes sense as they are able to use the same setup as they grow.
It would not be ill advised at all to buy a BP/W for your Daughter.
I would highly recommend it.
Regarding Dive Rite vs DSS, or other brands for that matter. I own Halcyon, Dive Rite, and DSS, as well as X-Deep.
To say that Dive Rite is superior to DSS is not accurate; not even close.
Many brands of wings share similarities, as can be seen by anyone comparing them. DSS wings stand out from many other brands, in my opinion, because of their attention to detail.
DSS back plates, in particular, are a better made plate. The finish, the molded in rubber webbing slots, along with the fact that they come in different lengths make them a great choice.
The harness that comes as part of the complete kit is also nice. The belt buckle is thicker than the OEM ones everyone else seems to use. The crotch strap webbing is softer, and includes their own manufactured d-ring tri-glide.
All of the details add up, and make for a great rig. Do these details matter to someone in the market for a BP/W?...maybe they do, maybe they don't......that's up to the buyer to decide if these details are important to them.
But in my opinion, after having dived and owned many of the BP/W rigs out there, the details matter.
Another nice detail is the OPV. I've upgraded every OPV to a DSS.
One DSS detail that is ahead of the OEM ones on everyone else's gear.
There are a lot of good choices out there, including Dive Rite.
But for BM to state above that "Dive Rite is superior to DSS for sure."
and...."The people at Dive Rite are light years ahead of the folks at the other place."
I call BS on that one.
I have no relationship with DSS, but if you're going to post disingenuous things about their gear, I'll feel compelled to post otherwise.
I own 'em both, and know better.
Your posts seem to be a bit agenda driven.
Cheers,
Mitch
A BP/W is easily adjustable and able to fit most divers.
For kids it makes sense as they are able to use the same setup as they grow.
It would not be ill advised at all to buy a BP/W for your Daughter.
I would highly recommend it.
Regarding Dive Rite vs DSS, or other brands for that matter. I own Halcyon, Dive Rite, and DSS, as well as X-Deep.
To say that Dive Rite is superior to DSS is not accurate; not even close.
Many brands of wings share similarities, as can be seen by anyone comparing them. DSS wings stand out from many other brands, in my opinion, because of their attention to detail.
DSS back plates, in particular, are a better made plate. The finish, the molded in rubber webbing slots, along with the fact that they come in different lengths make them a great choice.
The harness that comes as part of the complete kit is also nice. The belt buckle is thicker than the OEM ones everyone else seems to use. The crotch strap webbing is softer, and includes their own manufactured d-ring tri-glide.
All of the details add up, and make for a great rig. Do these details matter to someone in the market for a BP/W?...maybe they do, maybe they don't......that's up to the buyer to decide if these details are important to them.
But in my opinion, after having dived and owned many of the BP/W rigs out there, the details matter.
Another nice detail is the OPV. I've upgraded every OPV to a DSS.
One DSS detail that is ahead of the OEM ones on everyone else's gear.
There are a lot of good choices out there, including Dive Rite.
But for BM to state above that "Dive Rite is superior to DSS for sure."
and...."The people at Dive Rite are light years ahead of the folks at the other place."
I call BS on that one.
I have no relationship with DSS, but if you're going to post disingenuous things about their gear, I'll feel compelled to post otherwise.
I own 'em both, and know better.
Your posts seem to be a bit agenda driven.
Cheers,
Mitch
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dumpsterDiver
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You seem to be upset when one guy says Dive Rite is way better (without defining how), but then go on to say DSS has superior OP valves compared to everyone else.
I have never seen a DSS BC, and have used a few DR Wings, so I have no opinion about relative quality, functionality etc., but I am curious about what makes the DSS valves so superior?
I have never seen a DSS BC, and have used a few DR Wings, so I have no opinion about relative quality, functionality etc., but I am curious about what makes the DSS valves so superior?
I'm not upset. I just took issue with the "superior for sure" and "light years ahead" claims.
You are right however; I pointed out some details I liked. While doing so, I failed to mention why I thought the DSS OPV was ahead of the OEM designs, making it a nice addition (upgrade) to some of my other wings.
I'll post some pictures later, and show the difference between the DSS OPV and the OEM ones.
**No need for pictures, since Tobin has posted some pics below.
Cheers,
Mitch
You are right however; I pointed out some details I liked. While doing so, I failed to mention why I thought the DSS OPV was ahead of the OEM designs, making it a nice addition (upgrade) to some of my other wings.
I'll post some pictures later, and show the difference between the DSS OPV and the OEM ones.
**No need for pictures, since Tobin has posted some pics below.
Cheers,
Mitch
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Tobin gives an explanation of what he has done to make his OPV better on his page. Worth a read....
copied here:
Is your OPV not quite ready for the Big Time?
As in a large diameter 3mm Kernmantle Pull Cord?
Most Standard OPVs are furnished with thin cords and plastic pull knobs.
To reduce entanglements and inadvertant wing venting many divers remove the plastic pull or toggle and add a longer pull cord.
The larger diameter cords are much easier to grasp and use, particularly with gloves.
There are two problems with changing to a larger cord. Standard OPVs are not designed to use larger cords. The holes in the Outer Cage and inner seat retainer are too small and have to be drilled out, and the available space in the inner seat retainer is too small to accomodate the inner knot on the pull cord.
The first problem is easily solved, just drill out the plastic parts. The second problem, too small a recess for the inner nut is not.
Some will try to fit a large knot in a small recess by heating and melting the knot. This had resulted in failures of the pull cord.
The DSS Solution was to redesign the inner seat retainer to accomodate a larger knot. This redesigned seat retainer also requires a new OPV CAGE or outer cover because the new seat retainer is taller.
The DSS OPV kit includes the new Cage, SS Spring, 3mm x 5 inch Kernmantle pull cord, inner seat Retainer and Soft Seat. The soft seat is made of a thermoplastic elastomer, all other molded parts are Delrin.
*** Wings with three piece threaded through fittings will also require a DSS Hex outer or Double nut. These are availableHere
cool_hardware52
Contributor
We mold all of the fittings on our wings. I was unhappy with the industry standard ABS fittings being too brittle, and over time built molds for all of the bits and pieces. T nuts, outer nuts, sealing grommets, elbow, Elbow retainer nut, elbow seal, and the OPV. The OPV Cage, Soft Seat, and Seat cup.
The problem with the "Standard" OPV is the inner Seat Cup has a very small hole in it for the cord. If you try to fit a larger diameter cord the is not enough room in the seat cup for the knot. Divers often melt the knot in an effort to make it fit in the tiny recess, but this can lead to failure, i.e. nice thick cord that terminates in a tiny melted ball on the end of the cord, inside the OPV where it's not all that easy to inspect.
I started by redesigning the seat cup with a large recess, larger in both diameter and depth. The problem is if you use this seat cup in a standard OPV cage the seat cup will "bottom out" against the inside to the Cage before the OPV opens. Using this taller seat cup required a new taller OPV cage to provide the necessary travel. With the new seat cup and taller cage one can fit a 3mm kermantile cord, and use a secure knot inside the cup.
DSS seat cup (left) Standard seat cup (right)
Large cord in standard Cup
Large Cord in DSS cup
Taller, Delrin DSS cage with radiused Cord hole
We also source our OPV springs domestically, using domestic Stainless Wire. That's why we didn't have a OPV spring recall like most of the industry that all use the same wing fittings.
Tobin
The problem with the "Standard" OPV is the inner Seat Cup has a very small hole in it for the cord. If you try to fit a larger diameter cord the is not enough room in the seat cup for the knot. Divers often melt the knot in an effort to make it fit in the tiny recess, but this can lead to failure, i.e. nice thick cord that terminates in a tiny melted ball on the end of the cord, inside the OPV where it's not all that easy to inspect.
I started by redesigning the seat cup with a large recess, larger in both diameter and depth. The problem is if you use this seat cup in a standard OPV cage the seat cup will "bottom out" against the inside to the Cage before the OPV opens. Using this taller seat cup required a new taller OPV cage to provide the necessary travel. With the new seat cup and taller cage one can fit a 3mm kermantile cord, and use a secure knot inside the cup.
DSS seat cup (left) Standard seat cup (right)
Large cord in standard Cup
Large Cord in DSS cup
Taller, Delrin DSS cage with radiused Cord hole
We also source our OPV springs domestically, using domestic Stainless Wire. That's why we didn't have a OPV spring recall like most of the industry that all use the same wing fittings.
Tobin
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