BP/W Advice

[rgilkes]

Based on a lot of threads on this board, I am looking to get a bp/w setup for my first set of equipment. I live in North Florida and will probably do 95% of my diving in warm water (Florida or vacation diving). I am interested in getting this package from my local shop, but I have a few questions:

Hogarthian Custom Harness Package

- I was leaning towards an aluminum bp for travel, but 2 vs 6lbs doesn't seem like a lot to me. Should I go steel and if so, is there any reason to go for one of the more expensive options?
- How do I determine if I should get a 23lb or 32lb wing?
- Is the STA necessary?

 

[decompression]

That's a nice package for a decent price.

So, if you are diving 95% warm water then the real decider is what suit are you wearing? If rash guard/shorty then an aluminum plate, if 3 mil full you could go with either. Both assume Aluminum tanks.

With airlines it's nice to keep everything as light as possible, so aluminum. Although, if you are weighted neutral with a 3 mil full a steel plate usually allows little to no extra lead. For both plates it's ideal to be neutral.

Now, again, once you've figured your max negative, you want to ensure the wing can keep you neutral when diving and face up at the surface. Very common for warm water rigs to have around 18-20 lbs lift. So it would seem the 23 lb wing is more than enough.
An STA for this rig is optional and unless you are swapping out wings a lot, unnecessary.

I hope this helps.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Based on a lot of threads on this board, I am looking to get a bp/w setup for my first set of equipment. I live in North Florida and will probably do 95% of my diving in warm water (Florida or vacation diving). I am interested in getting this package from my local shop, but I have a few questions:

Hogarthian Custom Harness Package

- I was leaning towards an aluminum bp for travel, but 2 vs 6lbs doesn't seem like a lot to me. Should I go steel and if so, is there any reason to go for one of the more expensive options?
- How do I determine if I should get a 23lb or 32lb wing?
- Is the STA necessary?

You are getting sound advise. I'll expand on that a bit.

Plate material, i.e. stainless vs aluminum is a function of required ballast, and that is a function of the buoyancy of your exposure suit and cylinders. For example a diver in a 3mm suit (~4 lbs positive) using a buoyant al 80 (~+4 empty) will need about 8 lbs of ballast, 4 for the suit and 4 for the empty tank, in order to be able to hold a shallow stop with a (near) empty cylinder.

A stainless plate and harness will be about -6 lbs and a typical reg will be about -2 lbs. Many dive in thin suits and buoyant tanks using only their SS plate, harness and reg for ballast.

Regarding travel; Keep in mind the dry travel weight difference between a Stainless Plate and a lightweight aluminum or Kydex plate is about 3 lbs.

BC lift capacity needs to meet two criteria; Offer enough lift to float your rig with a full tank if you ditch it, and offer enough lift to compensate for the maximum posible change in buoyancy of your exposure suit.

For example with a SS plate, harness, reg and full al 80 your rig will be about -10 lbs with a full tank. A 3mm suit will be 3 ~ 5 lbs positive. That means a very small wing is plenty.

When would you need a larger wing? If you use more buoyant suits.

A final point, a larger wing is never the right answer to being over weighted, by example a 3mm suit + a negative steel tank + a Stainless plate. In this case your rig could be ~ - 18 lbs (full HP 100), but would also provide about 10 lbs of ballast with an empty tank. 10 lbs of ballast with a 3mm suit that is maybe +4 leaves you about 6 lbs over weighted. In this case, i.e. negative steel cylinders a light weight (less negative in the water) plate will cure most of the over weighted condition.

Good luck,

Tobin

 

[tbone1004]

read his post above, and since the cheapest you're going to get out with that plate is $360+tax, consider purchasing from Tobin above who produces an extremely high quality product with features that are VERY nice for single tank diving and you'll only spend about $100 more for a Made in USA product that is much nicer than that package.

 

[2airishuman]

Based on a lot of threads on this board, I am looking to get a bp/w setup for my first set of equipment. I live in North Florida and will probably do 95% of my diving in warm water (Florida or vacation diving). I am interested in getting this package from my local shop, but I have a few questions:

Hogarthian Custom Harness Package

- I was leaning towards an aluminum bp for travel, but 2 vs 6lbs doesn't seem like a lot to me. Should I go steel and if so, is there any reason to go for one of the more expensive options?
- Is the STA necessary?

One of the main differences among brands is how they affix a single tank. With better designed BP&Ws, an STA isn't necessary, and some thought is given to reducing the number of steps in attaching the wing and the tank. The DSS setup I have allows the wing and backplate to be separated for storage without removing the cambands from the backplate, and doesn't require an STA. Some other manufacturers have similar setups. Ideally, you want the backplate and wing to be from the same manufacturer for single-tank diving, because manufacturers have different setups and you'll be back to an STA if they aren't fully compatible.

- How do I determine if I should get a 23lb or 32lb wing?

Tobin has explained the math upthread, the wing has to have enough lift to compensate for wetsuit compression and gas used during the dive. It also should float your kit in case you either need to ditch it or enter/exit the water without having it on. For typical tropical dives with 3mm or less of neoprene and an 80 or 100 cf cylinder, 23 lbs is plenty.

 

[runsongas]

the only situation where a steel plate would be not workable is if it caused you to be overweighted which

Based on a lot of threads on this board, I am looking to get a bp/w setup for my first set of equipment. I live in North Florida and will probably do 95% of my diving in warm water (Florida or vacation diving). I am interested in getting this package from my local shop, but I have a few questions:

Hogarthian Custom Harness Package

- I was leaning towards an aluminum bp for travel, but 2 vs 6lbs doesn't seem like a lot to me. Should I go steel and if so, is there any reason to go for one of the more expensive options?
- How do I determine if I should get a 23lb or 32lb wing?
- Is the STA necessary?

if you were looking at the 23lb wing, DGX sells a similar package for slightly cheaper as they include two cam bands.

DGX Custom - DGX Singles Harness / Backplate / Wing Package | Dive Gear Express®

 

[scubadada]

I dive year round in Florida and use a 3, 5, and 7 mm wetsuit. A steel back plate is good with everything except a 3 mm wetsuit and a steel tank, for which I am over weighted. An AL or Kydex plate is better for that.

 

[stuartv]

For FL and warmer, I use a Hog 23# wing and a SS BP. I would be overweighted if I were using a steel tank, in fresh water, and diving in board shorts. Maybe even in my 3/2 wet suit. For aluminum tanks or salt water or full wetsuit (even 3/2), the SS BP does not make me too heavy.

I have found no need for an STA with that wing.

I have a DSS BP and a DSS LCD30 wing also. I haven't used the DSS wing since I got the Hog wing.

I just got a Blue Reef SS BP from Leisure Pro. They were on sale for $50. So far, the only thing that is "nicer" to me about the DSS BP is that it has rubber grommets in the webbing slots to protect the webbing from wear. But, that is a pro and con, really. Those grommets also make it much more of a pain to adjust the webbing. The BR BP actually seems pretty nice. I have not dived it yet, though.

I used to use the regular cam bands that came with the DSS rig. I have since replaced them with the DGX Quick Release tank straps and like those a lot better. And with those, any wing comes off the BP just as easily.

ps. I have flown with my SS BP several times. I put it in my carry-on bag (with the wing, masks, wetsuit, boots, gloves and a few other things), so I don't have an issue with baggage weight limits, and it has been fine. And I'm always glad, when I get to my destination, to have a SS BP instead of something lighter.

 

[longtimer]

I have a DSS torus 26 w/SS back I use for OW rec diving. I think it's a superior rig, excellent design and execution. Don't be scared by the individual purchase prices, cut right to the package deal and that is a bargain. There are so many seemingly insignificant design innovations in their gear that add up to an outstanding product that you should at least read thru the literature. The only thing I would change is I would prefer 2" longer corrugated hose assembly. All in all a decidedly better mousetrap...

 

[67macoshark]

You are getting sound advise. I'll expand on that a bit.

Plate material, i.e. stainless vs aluminum is a function of required ballast, and that is a function of the buoyancy of your exposure suit and cylinders. For example a diver in a 3mm suit (~4 lbs positive) using a buoyant al 80 (~+4 empty) will need about 8 lbs of ballast, 4 for the suit and 4 for the empty tank, in order to be able to hold a shallow stop with a (near) empty cylinder.

A stainless plate and harness will be about -6 lbs and a typical reg will be about -2 lbs. Many dive in thin suits and buoyant tanks using only their SS plate, harness and reg for ballast.

Regarding travel; Keep in mind the dry travel weight difference between a Stainless Plate and a lightweight aluminum or Kydex plate is about 3 lbs.

BC lift capacity needs to meet two criteria; Offer enough lift to float your rig with a full tank if you ditch it, and offer enough lift to compensate for the maximum posible change in buoyancy of your exposure suit.

For example with a SS plate, harness, reg and full al 80 your rig will be about -10 lbs with a full tank. A 3mm suit will be 3 ~ 5 lbs positive. That means a very small wing is plenty.

When would you need a larger wing? If you use more buoyant suits.

A final point, a larger wing is never the right answer to being over weighted, by example a 3mm suit + a negative steel tank + a Stainless plate. In this case your rig could be ~ - 18 lbs (full HP 100), but would also provide about 10 lbs of ballast with an empty tank. 10 lbs of ballast with a 3mm suit that is maybe +4 leaves you about 6 lbs over weighted. In this case, i.e. negative steel cylinders a light weight (less negative in the water) plate will cure most of the over weighted condition.

Good luck,

Tobin

Tobin, Whenever plate selection or wing size is brought up your advice is always the same, and the sentiment is shared by most that post, but why isn't an individuals buoyancy part of the formula? There is a 12# swing in human beings (depending on the study, -5 to +7) and that seems significant enough for consideration especially when choosing a plate for warm water diving. I imagine the closer you are to the extreme ends of the scale, the bigger the issue, but I've never seen it brought up. Am I missing something here, or adding too much?