Bottom Time...Padi~vs~SSI

Padi ~vs ~ SSI

  • Padi

    Votes: 19 59.4%
  • SSI

    Votes: 5 15.6%
  • What's SSI?

    Votes: 2 6.3%
  • Naui beats both!

    Votes: 6 18.8%

  • Total voters
    32
  • Poll closed .

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robnpolly

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Location
Chesapeake, VA though originally from GA
I am currently a Padi Open Water diver and my wife is a SSI (Scuba Schools International) diver. This past weekend we took our first dive together and discovered a noticable difference in our dive tables. It seems that the SSI table is very.... how should I put it....conservative when it comes to allowed bottom time for multiple dives. This really disturbed me since I'm all about maximizing my bottom time, all while ensuring that I strictly follow the guidelines set forth within the tables. To give you an example, we dove to a depth of 70ft for a total of 25 minutes (my wife is new and sucked up her air rather quickly). According to her tables, if we stay up for 46 minutes, then we can make a second dive to the same depth for a total of 14 minutes. Now, according to my Padi tables, we can make this same dive for 25 minutes. That's 11 more minutes of bottom time. That may not sound like much to most people, but to me that's another trip around the sunken boat, or a little more time to work on our skills. So, ladies and gentlemen, you choose for yourself which course you'd prefer to enroll in. But when my wife decides to further her education, we're switching her over to Padi. Sorry SSI.
 
robnpolly:
....... But when my wife decides to further her education, we're switching her over to Padi. Sorry SSI.

Not sure the poll is a good idea, but hey, I guess we'll see.

My recommendation is for her to study and learn to use the PADI RDP (if thats what BOTH of you want to use). She is a certified diver, and there is no good reason that she can't just learn to use the RDP instead of her SSI tables. Having trained with one agency doesn't mean that you can't keep learning, and train to use different tables if you like.

Good to hear that you use some of your dive time for skills practice. Not nearly enough divers do.
 
The tables acn be quite confusing. Especially when comparing different tables to eachother. How can it be safe to dive following on set of tables when another says it is unsafe? Well, this is the problem with dive tables. They are built using not very accurate theories.

If you want to maximize your bottom time, use the RDP, it is statistically proved to work very well. Otherwise if you want to be safe, don't go to the limit of the table.
 
NAUI tables are more closely patterned after the original Navy tables. These tables tend to be less conservative for the initial dive, but are FAR more conservative on repetitive dives than PADI tables.

I suspect that SSI and NAUI use the same tables or slight modifications of the same tables. AFAIK, PADI/DSAT is the only agency to develop their own tables from the ground up.

The difference is that the PADI table was designed more around the typical recreational diver... 2-3 dives per day max, with a day off every 3 days are strongly suggested in PADI training (and really not a bad idea). These precautions would generally be enough to clear any excess nitrogen loading in the slower tissue groups brought on by more aggressive repetitive profiles.

Theoretically, the more conservative NAUI/SSI tables would allow you to perform 5 dives a day for 2 weeks without a break with no significant increase in the risk of taking a hit.
 
robnpolly:
So, ladies and gentlemen, you choose for yourself which course you'd prefer to enroll in. But when my wife decides to further her education, we're switching her over to Padi. Sorry SSI.

Does picking an agency really boil down to how much bottom time the tables give you?

After getting out of diving for a while, I recently took a Nitrox class from an SSI instructor. I went into his shop to get my gear serviced. My old LDS had closed and the closest PADI shop would not work on my type of gear. I was very comfortable with his background and he was more than willing to spend time answering my questions.

About the tables, I noticed that SSI tables give you less credit for surface intervals. I know this has to do with the two different "decompresson models" used by the agencies. Maybe some one with more knowledge will pipe in on the subject.
 
DPJ:
About the tables, I noticed that SSI tables give you less credit for surface intervals. I know this has to do with the two different "decompresson models" used by the agencies.
SIMPLE ANSWER: The decompression models are actually quite similar. The difference is that the USN derived tables track the only 120 minute compartment while the PADI RDP & wheel track the only 60 minute compartment. So PADI will reduce the assumed N2 load by half in a 1 hour SI, while it takes 2 hours to do the same in the USN/NAUI/SSI/YMCA tables.

The USN tables were made for both scuba and surface supplied use, and needed to track the longer compartments. In open circuit scuba the 60 minute and faster compartments are usually the limiting ones, and PADI avoids exceeding the limit in the 120 minute compartment and slower compartments through the use of the ad hoc X,Y, and Z rules in the the fine print of the tables.

-----------------------

More Detailed Answer:

Both PADI RDP and the USN tables and their derivatives (SSI, NAUI, YMCA, etc.) are simple dissolved gas models. The limits (aka M-values) of the USN/Workman and the PADI/DSAT/Spencer models are similar, with the USN limits being more liberal. That is why, as Rich Lockyer noted, that the NAUI tables give more time than PADI on FIRST dives of the day.

The PADI RDP tracks only the 60 minute compartment. Pressure Group Z means that the 60 minute compartment is at its M limit (actually, per my reverse engineering of the tables, it appears that PG Z is really only 95% of M0, but that's another story).

For dives deeper than 40', a faster compartment will hit the limits before the 60 minute compartment. That's why, for example, an 80' to the 30 minute limit leaves you in pressure group R. The 20 minute halftime compartment has hit the limit, and both the 10 and 30 minute compartments are near their limits after 80' 30 minutes, but the 60 minute compartment is only at 70% of the limit. (The time constant of the limiting compartment for any given square profile depth can estimated as NDLtime/1.25)

The SI tracks only the decay of the 60 minute compartment. You can easily verify that tracking only the slower compartment adds in a level of conservatism.

The USN table works in a similar way, but tracks the 120 minute compartment. This is a less accurate model since the limiting compartment is much faster than 120 minutes.

By tracking a compartment much, much slower than the actual controlling compartment, you end up adding a very significant, but rather strangely distributed safety factor when using the USN table.

I prefer to use a table that better models that type of diving I am doing.
 
Of course, Charlie99's answer is the good one. But just to add to the mix, if bottom time is really your main goal, why not use computers?? :eyebrow:
 
I can't help but think this poll is a bad idea. :11:
 
Rick Inman:
Of course, Charlie99's answer is the good one. But just to add to the mix, if bottom time is really your main goal, why not use computers?? :eyebrow:

Same thought crossed my mind, but I decided not to flame the fires. ;)
 

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