Blackmail by 'professionals"?

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I have no issue with an offered or asked for discount. I never gave one that didn’t apply to firefighters, police, military. Dive shops or professionals didn’t get one on principal. Jim lapenta would have been offered one.

It’s the threat of retaliation that twists my panties.
 
It's all about perspective. I'm not justifying the words in that message. The threat to do harm is horrible. But, what he's saying to you candidly, is probably what many dive professionals do in reality. Rail against it all you want, but you're fighting reality. No, I'm not the average diver or instructor, but you can extrapolate things as you wish.

When I lived in the Keys, a few shops would put me on their boats anytime I showed up and they encouraged me to come as often as I could make it. A few required I bring a paying customer or was teaching and some just didn't offer me anything. At a party one time, I was cornered by one dive op owner who had read my posts about some of the dive ops I had been on, and was wondering why I hadn't been on his. Rly? I go where I'm truly wanted. If you want the free marketing I provide, then make it worth my while. I'll never bash or threaten a dive shop. But don't expect me to support you or otherwise promote you. It's not personal: it's business.

So think of these requests as marketing opportunities. If you don't need goodwill, then don't offer any discount to Instructors or group leaders. If you do need the goodwill, then throw them a bone. You can even make requests with those bones. Ask that they post on SB about their trip, that they bring a full paying dive buddy, or any of a number of other conditions to qualify. If you can't afford more, simply tell them that this is one way you keep your prices down. However, if you don't make them feel important, then don't expect them to come or to bring their flock. People like to feel important. If you think they're only a poser, simply blow them off, but remember that the world is full of petty people.

Take Frank (please?). He really understood his customer base. He knew who to attract and who to blow off. He had various methods for either situation. Invariably, those who Frank loved, loved him back. Those Frank didn't much like always found the trip full.
 
Sounds like an entitlement issue. Those are all around us these days.
Those instructors are entitled to their entitlements.
 
If this chiseler is a dick to the Dive Op on the phone, he will be a dick to PAYING customers, bragging about how he got a discount while the chumps have to pay full price.
It is more about the Chiseler personality, that is only happy if he hustles somebody. I just now have this Fcktard on EBay that bought a $5 toy, got a $2 discount on shipping and is threatening lawsuits and negative feedback in order to get who-the-fkuc-knows what he wants, or why he has sent me five quibbley emails about it. Gee Zuess, these freaks are everywhere!
 
The first time I had occasion to ask a business for a break on something, on behalf of a fundraising event, I didn't feel ENTITLED to a break. I just ask, in the most open terms I could think of "Could you make any accommodation for...." leaving it wide open for them to say 25% off, or half off, or whatever. I was stunned when the company just said "How much do you need? No charge."

And that wasn't the only time. I learned fast that if you give someone a chance to be a hero, they OFTEN will surprise you with their response. But if you come at them with an attitude of entitlement....that's just being a jerk or, at best, starting a business negotiation which is NEVER going to be as generous as someone deciding to step up and be generous.

Some places don't and won't budge, i.e. "review copies" or other services that will be the basis for what could be great publicity? Hey, if their policy is that they don't do that, that's their policy. I sure wouldn't "blackmail" a dive operator. After all, they could put chum in the water after I went in. (And arguably SHOULD.)
 
I don’t ask for a discount as a dive pro on a personal vacation. I know how much everyone makes. I may not take advantage of group discount if I’m booking a trip I fill with dive buddies,we split the savings. If im schelpping it out on a shop trip with customers I expect to be comp’d by my shop doing the booking.
 
My wife has an instructor certification. When she was single, traveling alone, she believed that the dive masters tended to partner her up with the least experienced divers. I believe the thinking was that she was expected to be an ad hoc divemaster. It got so bad, that she started to only admit to having a rescue certification. So it can work the other way.

Yes i remember that from my Red Sea holidays. I used to show my AOW card only (being a Master Instructor).
 
That sounds fair and anyone who organizes a group should ask operations/resorts if they have such policies.
Indeed we do that, depending of our own expected occupation rate of the period they will visit and sometimes for last minute bookings. Not always groups bring much benefit however. Our resorts ate small, and when fully booked for 4 nights only we might have to disappoint our repeater guests and other longer stay inquiries.
 
I received this as reply to mail in which I refused to offer a special discount to a Dive Instructor. We do offer discounts for all sorts of reasons. For example for last minute bookings or low season. But not just because the inquiry is from an instructor or other "professional'. Maybe Padi and other organisation should pay a little bit more attention to the ethics of their members?
Lastly, by not offering a professional discount, you can be sure that Dive Instructors will tell others to stay away. In our experiences, by not incentivizing Dive instructors to come to a resort, usually means that a resort is cutting corners and does not run as good of a dive shop, as safe of a dive shop, or as honest of a dive shop. This is not to imply, but most resorts know that if they aren't up to standards, a dive instructor will know. Again, better to make 90% and have excellent advertising? or make 0% and have negative advertising?

Hello,
I am the Dive Instructor that this resort is referencing. I feel I have to respond to give the entire premise and NOT just a point from the email.
As a group of 4 instructors traveling (yes real instructors, no entitled millennials), we researched an area and sent our requests for booking and of course with request for professionals discounts. This is the reply we received from this resort owner:

"We do not offer special discounts for Instructors, KITAS holders or Indonesian citizens. I never really understood why we should? The only reason people always give me is: others do it too."


AFTER we had made our choice to stay at a different place, and not as a rebuttal, I sent this reply:

"
Greetings Rob,

Thank you for your time and information regarding your resort. After careful consideration we have chosen another resort. I did want to take the time to give information to you as to why you would want to give 4 Dive Instructors professional discounts without the reason of "others do it too", so that in the future, you will not have to answer in the way you did.

  1. Dive instructors do nothing but talk to travelers about diving, the places they have been, and the resorts they have stayed. This includes talking with their students and the travelers with the students. They do this all day long every day to thousands of divers a year. Now multiply that times 4. Can you think of a more cost effective way for your advertising money to be spent? Direct face to face marketing to your target audience.
  2. When it boils down to numbers, everything else being equal, a 10% professional discount will make the difference in choosing your resort or someone else. So if "others do it too", you already know you are going to be more expensive and lets face it, if reviews and accommodations are good enough to reach out to you for pricing, its already come down to availability and pricing. Is it better to make 90% and have excellent advertising? or make 0% and have negative advertising?
  3. Through my 18 years of recreational diving and 6 years professional experience, I have taken more trips from the professional advice of other dive instructors, than I have done so with advice from any other source. It's because they know, and you are supposed to take advice from those that know.
  4. Dive instructors have fewer needs from a dive resort. Dive instructors know how important it is to be careful with gear if they use yours, but most will bring their own. Dive instructors are not going to be the ones bouncing off the coral. Dive instructors will help when needed for attention to less able divers. The 4 Dive instructors in question have collectively over 10,000 dives in conditions all over the world. That allows your employees to have less workload and be more efficient.
  5. Lastly, by not offering a professional discount, you can be sure that Dive Instructors will tell others to stay away. In our experiences, by not incentivizing Dive instructors to come to a resort, usually means that a resort is cutting corners and does not run as good of a dive shop, as safe of a dive shop, or as honest of a dive shop. This is not to imply, but most resorts know that if they aren't up to standards, a dive instructor will know. Again, better to make 90% and have excellent advertising? or make 0% and have negative advertising?
Hopefully this will enlighten you as to why Dive Instructors ask for a professional discount and why you should give one. "

These facts are all true, and have been discussed with many CDs over the years. The resort owner posted this on here to retaliate that he did not earn the business, showing him to be a vindictive man that sets a false premise to make himself feel better. He was never blackmailed, he was never asked another question after giving his rates. His pricing is his choice. Our stays and recommendations are ours.
 
You did the right thing by moving on....that’s why there are always other options....the owner has every right to refuse discounts too...

I wonder if I call each airline and ask for a discount because I’m a professional pilot. I don’t fly for an airline.

Now go splash and have fun.
 

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