Best Kayak for Diving?

[rsingler]

I have a beautiful kelp bed just offshore near Cambria, CA that is just begging to be dived. There's a beach that's suitable for access, so I've decided that kayak diving is the next step. I'm just plain tired of the sand that gets in everything using Monterey for beach access diving in 10' visibility.

Many of the SB threads on the subject of kayak diving are pretty old. The earlier consensus is that the Ocean Kayak Scupper Pro TW (Tank Well) is hands down the best for diving. But it's no longer available.
It's 14'9" x 26", rated for 450# and weighing 55#.

So here's what I don't understand. It's all about center of gravity. Looking at these pics, the diver's center of mass is already behind the midpoint of the kayak. The well is even further aft.
As I read, I hear folks saying,
"only open a hatch in absolutely calm conditions", or "strap everything on deck and be ready to go".
And on top of that, I don't see how I can drop my rig in that forward hatch with any ease. Weight pockets and anchor might be the best I can do for forward loading. So all the remaining 30-60# of single or double tanks are going behind me. There's just not enough hull volume behind my seat to convince me that I wouldn't be riding bow high, with loss of directional stability.

Malibukayaks.com lists four kayaks as especially good for diving. One of the bigger ones is the X-Factor:
14'4" x 33", rated for 550# and weighing 64#

The same geometry seems to apply here. The seat is aft of the midpoint and the well is even further back than the Scupper Pro.

If 33" is too wide compared with the Scupper Pro, they have the X-13:
13'10" x 29", rated like the Scupper Pro for 450# and weighing 60#

Same geometry: seat aft of midpoint and a big well behind the seat.

Now I used to be a small boat sailor, and trim and balance was everything. So will somebody tell me why a tandem isn't a better choice?

It's 13'0" x 33", so shorter and wider than the Scupper Pro. That says harder to push thru the water.
But it's rated for 550# and weighs 73#, so I'm guessing my weight and my gear won't put it too deep in the water. Most important, with my tank(s) and gear strapped down forward, and me aft, I would expect to ride perfectly for paddling.

Where's the error in my reasoning?
Any kayak divers out there?

 

[Russjstewart]

I don’t kayak dive but I did come across this on YouTube, it may or may not be helpful.

 

[lexvil]

I have no idea of what makes a kayak a dive platform, the whole process just isn’t something I want to try, being sealed up in a dry suit and paddling any distance...

I have seen fishing kayaks that look like they would be very stabile, much wider with a sort of tri-hull configuration.

I’ll stick with the sand and iffy viz.

 

[rsingler]

Have done a bit more exploring...
Ocean Kayak is still in business (but out of stock til October).
The Trident 15 Seaglass seems to have a hull shape closest to the Scupper Pro TW,

with specs of similar length and beam: 15'6" x 28.5", and rated for 455#.
But this has come at a cost of greatly increased weight at 91#! Perhaps part of it is all the hatches and cup holders and other garbage that might be omitted in a custom order. Perhaps it's a heavier mold, because at 55#, the originial Scupper Pro was lighter than just about anything else, especially considering length. Perhaps there were breakage issues.

But there's also a smaller model, the Trident 13 Angler, and as you'll see below, a 2 year old review that makes mention of scuba:

It's 13'6" x 29", rated for 355# and weighs 79#.

Here's the review from 2018:
"After trying a couple other popular "fishing kayaks", I wanted one that would offer me more speed and sustained speed with a heavy load (scuba/treasure hunting gear, >75lbs). I previously had a couple popular and wider kayaks, but speeds across open water was between 2-3mph. I paddle miles to get to certain areas, inland lakes and Lake Michigan. I am 6'3" and 275lbs. This Trident 13 was the ticket! More speed, more nimble, a little lighter for roof loading and much better in the wind too. Speeds empty have been 4,5,6mph and loaded with wet scuba gear/etc (like 70-80lbs) have been 3-4mph. It's not a dry ride, but that's a non issue for my needs, it is very low profile, which is why its faster etc. It's very responsive and very easy to control in the wind and waves. I tried the 15ft Trident for comparison, it was difficult in even light winds (probably needed rudder) and in every gps speed comparisons, unloaded vs loaded, over miles of paddling, the 13 gave me better results. The 15 was a dry and higher ride and could fit an extra scuba tank in the front hatch, but speeds dropped below 3 with that in there (+38lbs) and the nose got pretty low too. The Trident 13 is an awesome kayak!"

Again, everything looks stern heavy, but he made some nice comments. I've got a query in to MalibuKayaks about this issue. We'll see what they say.

Hope a scuba kayaker chimes in soon!

 

[Bigbella]

It has now been a few years and the now-defunct brand escapes me; but the model we found most useful for diving, resembled that of the Pro 2 Tandem, which we typically rented. It was wide, flat, and far less of a headache to drag a tank and BC back onboard -- which can pose more of a challenge than that video illustrates.

Even with a 100 cubic foot tank and spearfishing equipment, it was simple to paddle and far more stable and easier than some others to stow gear after a dive. It was great for Mendocino waters with its endless coves.

We carried all of our skin diving gear in mesh catch bags which were easy to secure and less likely to blow away . . .

 

[Brett Hatch]

Hi @rsingler, I have been thinking along much the same lines recently. When I heard about diving off a kayak, it tickled that part of my brain that just can't be un-tickled, and I started doing research. I found that for every diver recommending some other kayak, there were eight or nine more recommending the Scupper Pro Tank Well. It almost seemed like a religious sect of the First Church of SPTW Kayaks. But asking around, it really does seem to be a solidly-built boat, people use them for scuba, freediving, spear fishing, pole fishing, and of course, just regular-old-kayaking. I have no idea why Ocean Kayak stopped making them around 2009.

I figured there must be something to it, so, a month ago, I posted a "want to buy" ad in a few different geographies on Craigslist, specifying that I wanted this exact boat and nothing else. I said that I'd be willing to entertain any reasonable price, pick up anywhere in California, and asked for photos. The responses trickled in from folks near and far, we haggled over prices, blahdy blahdy blah, some people were serious and others were flaky, yada yada yada. Most prices were 600 +/- 100 apiece. Over labor day weekend I ended up securing a deal for two of them at 400 a pop, both from the late 90s, both in pretty good shape.

Bought them from a dude down in Cambria (of all places!). He's something of a SPTW enthusiast, real nice guy. He's into regular-old-kayaking, is pretty serious about it, and the SPTW is his vessel of choice. Guy likes to go out with his ladyfriend, one with an ice chest in the tank well, other with a barbecue in it. They paddle around for like 10+ miles a day, eat, and be merry. Even though a kayak is a means to an end for me, they made it sound like a lot of fun, not to mention good exercise.

I didn't take him up on the somewhat shabby-looking paddles and seats he was willing to throw in, so I haven't actually dived the boats yet. Currently working on acquiring paddles, seats, reels, anchors, kelp clips, dive flags, and all the other bips and bops needed to make it a proper diving platform.

Point is, these things are still available, and if you look for them, you'll find them. While I agree with your geometric reasoning (and had similar concerns myself), there appeared to be a cult following for the things, so I just went ahead and ordered a tall glass of Kool-Aid. Hoping to actually dive off of them in a couple-three weeks when I get all my ducks in a row and can arrange things with my dive buddy

Edit to add: I remembered that a friend snapped a photo of them in Cambria just after picking these up. These suckers are LONG! My truck has a 6.5' bed with the gate up, but since they are about 15' long, the best way I could find to get them in there was to fold the tailgate down. It worked, and I did safely drive over a hundred miles with them rigged just like this. But it's not super conducive to my usual habit of throwing a small mountain of dive gear in the the bed. If I end up liking this kayak diving thing, I might need to weld myself up a ladder rack...

Coming soon: a couple of new diving platforms

• Brett Hatch
• Sep 9, 2020
• 2

two used Scupper Pro Tank Well kayaks

 

[The Chairman]

Welding up a frame out of 1x1 cold rolled steel tubing to hold those Kayaks would be quite simple

 

[-JD-]

But it's not super conducive to my usual habit of throwing a small mountain of dive gear in the the bed. If I end up liking this kayak diving thing, I might need to weld myself up a ladder rack...

You could use either a Yakima, Thule, etc. Roof rack bar or kayak foam block on the roof of the cab and a receiver mounted T-bar to support the rear. Cheap to buy or fab and easy to store.
Ex. https://www.etrailer.com/Watersport-Carriers/Darby/DTA944-968-924.html

 

[Barnaby'sDad]

You could use either a Yakima, Thule, etc. Roof rack bar or kayak foam block on the roof of the cab and a receiver mounted T-bar to support the rear. Cheap to buy or fab and easy to store.
Ex. https://www.etrailer.com/Watersport-Carriers/Darby/DTA944-968-924.html

Yup. That or a legit ladder rack. I’ve always wanted an excuse to get a ladder rack for my truck. I believe a kayak would give me that excuse.

 

[Still Kicking]

Hi @rsingler, I have been thinking along much the same lines recently. When I heard about diving off a kayak, it tickled that part of my brain that just can't be un-tickled, and I started doing research. I found that for every diver recommending some other kayak, there were eight or nine more recommending the Scupper Pro Tank Well. It almost seemed like a religious sect of the First Church of SPTW Kayaks. But asking around, it really does seem to be a solidly-built boat, people use them for scuba, freediving, spear fishing, pole fishing, and of course, just regular-old-kayaking. I have no idea why Ocean Kayak stopped making them around 2009.

I figured there must be something to it, so, a month ago, I posted a "want to buy" ad in a few different geographies on Craigslist, specifying that I wanted this exact boat and nothing else. I said that I'd be willing to entertain any reasonable price, pick up anywhere in California, and asked for photos. The responses trickled in from folks near and far, we haggled over prices, blahdy blahdy blah, some people were serious and others were flaky, yada yada yada. Most prices were 600 +/- 100 apiece. Over labor day weekend I ended up securing a deal for two of them at 400 a pop, both from the late 90s, both in pretty good shape.

Bought them from a dude down in Cambria (of all places!). He's something of a SPTW enthusiast, real nice guy. He's into regular-old-kayaking, is pretty serious about it, and the SPTW is his vessel of choice. Guy likes to go out with his ladyfriend, one with an ice chest in the tank well, other with a barbecue in it. They paddle around for like 10+ miles a day, eat, and be merry. Even though a kayak is a means to an end for me, they made it sound like a lot of fun, not to mention good exercise.

I didn't take him up on the somewhat shabby-looking paddles and seats he was willing to throw in, so I haven't actually dived the boats yet. Currently working on acquiring paddles, seats, reals, anchors, kelp clips, dive flags, and all the other bips and bops needed to make it a proper diving platform.

Point is, these things are still available, and if you look for them, you'll find them. While I agree with your geometric reasoning (and had similar concerns myself), there appeared to be a cult following for the things, so I just went ahead and ordered a tall glass of Kool-Aid. Hoping to actually dive off of them in a couple-three weeks when I get all my ducks in a row and can arrange things with my dive buddy

Edit to add: I remembered that a friend snapped a photo of them in Cambria just after picking these up. These suckers are LONG! My truck has a 6.5' bed with the gate up, but since they are about 15' long, the best way I could find to get them in there was to fold the tailgate down. It worked, and I did safely drive over a hundred miles with them rigged just like this. But it's not super conducive to my usual habit of throwing a small mountain of dive gear in the the bed. If I end up liking this kayak diving thing, I might need to weld myself up a ladder rack...

Coming soon: a couple of new diving platforms

• Brett Hatch
• Sep 9, 2020
• 2

two used Scupper Pro Tank Well kayaks