Balanced Diaphram or Balanced Piston?

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bevansmw

Contributor
Messages
112
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Location
Hawaii
# of dives
25 - 49
Ok so I'm new to this and am curious as to the differences between a reg with a balanced diaphram over a balanced piston. I heard that the balanaced piston is more prone to corrosion and if it fails it will just freeflow while the balanced diaphram is less prone to corrosion and if it fails it'll cut off the airflow. Are these statements true? If not what is the case with the difference between the options?

I'm currently contemplating my regulator purchase for my dive equipment and want to get this sorted, I'm looking at the Zeagle Envoy or Zeagle Envoy Deluxe reg for my first reg.
 
The bit about the diaphragm reg cutting off the air flow if it fails is totally false. It is sort of true that balanced piston regs are more prone to corrosion than some diaphragm regs (ones that have sealed environmental chambers) but corrosion can get to any reg that's not properly rinsed after use in salt water, and well-cared for piston regs can go many years without any corrosion.
 
Here's an old thread on the topic: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/regulators/83190-zeagle-envoy-vs-envoy-deluxe.html

An environmentally sealed diaphragm first stage and a 2d stage with radiator fins may be helpful in water below 50 deg F. You really need to get the regulator User Manual to see what the manufacturer actually commits to for temperature. If temperature is even a concern. In Hawaii, I wouldn't think it is.

The Oceanic Owner's Manual states that none of their piston regulators are to be used below 50 deg F and they can not be adapted to do so. See page 7 here: http://www.oceanicworldwide.com/pdf/12-2018-r09.pdf I would expect other manufacturers to have similar statements of the capabilities of their regulators.

Richard
 
Don't know who told you this:confused:

But it's not thru.Any modern reg. when it fails,will start to freeflow.That's why they call it "failsafe"
As for the balanced piston regs.being more prone to corrosion,most have so much christolube on the wet side,that corrosion is just not possible.
 
Diaphragm first stages are an upstream design, so theoretically if the mainspring failed/broke it could fail closed as the tank pressure is gping to hold the seat and seat carrier against the orifice.

If the same failure occurs on a balanced piston reg, the piston is downstream so it will just sort of freefloat and operate, but with a fairly low IP, so it will breathe, but not all that well.

That said, mainspring failures are all but unheard of. In terms fo the likely to be encountered failures (Hp seat leaks, o-ring leaks, etc) they will all fail open.

Even on an unsealed diaphragm first stage, the moving parts are behind the diaphragm so they are not exposed to sea water during a normal dive. On the other hand, there are more smaller moving parts and springs inside that can be affected by water entering the reg through the air inlet as is the case with a tank with water in it or during a rinse with a leaking or missing inlet cap.

A balanced piston reg does have piston stem and the back side of the piston head exposed to water during the dive, but as stated above the parts are normally covered with a film of christolube. They are also chrome plated brass (or in some cases the piston head is plastic) so with reasonable rinsing it is just not an issue. I regularly see Mk 5's with 30 years of salt water service that are still corrosion free. If flooded internally, there are fewer moving parts and no small parts so corrosion damage is less immediately problem causing - but unless it is cleaned and dried soon, it is still going to encounter serious corrosion problems.

In short, there are pros and cons, but both designs are more than adequate and are durable enough to survive all but the most accomplished idiots.
 
Sweet, thanks for the responses :)
 
Diaphragm first stages are an upstream design, so theoretically if the mainspring failed/broke it could fail closed as the tank pressure is gping to hold the seat and seat carrier against the orifice.

If the same failure occurs on a balanced piston reg, the piston is downstream so it will just sort of freefloat and operate, but with a fairly low IP, so it will breathe, but not all that well.


That said, mainspring failures are all but unheard of. In terms fo the likely to be encountered failures (Hp seat leaks, o-ring leaks, etc) they will all fail open.

Even on an unsealed diaphragm first stage, the moving parts are behind the diaphragm so they are not exposed to sea water during a normal dive. On the other hand, there are more smaller moving parts and springs inside that can be affected by water entering the reg through the air inlet as is the case with a tank with water in it or during a rinse with a leaking or missing inlet cap.

A balanced piston reg does have piston stem and the back side of the piston head exposed to water during the dive, but as stated above the parts are normally covered with a film of christolube. They are also chrome plated brass (or in some cases the piston head is plastic) so with reasonable rinsing it is just not an issue. I regularly see Mk 5's with 30 years of salt water service that are still corrosion free. If flooded internally, there are fewer moving parts and no small parts so corrosion damage is less immediately problem causing - but unless it is cleaned and dried soon, it is still going to encounter serious corrosion problems.

In short, there are pros and cons, but both designs are more than adequate and are durable enough to survive all but the most accomplished idiots.


I agree that in theory a diaphragm regulator could fail closed with a main spring failure. But, if they are truly balanced, tank pressure will not really close or open the first stage valve in either type of mechanism. What would hold the seat closed (in a diaphragm first stage), is the small spring used to close the seat. The spring is there since the push pin will not pull the valve closed.

In a Conshelf, Royal Aqua Master, or Phoenix RAM it takes about 8 Lbs to open the first stage valve. It doesn't really mater if it is attached to a tank with 3000 psi or not attached to any air pressure source. I have measured it a few times (on a some RAM and PRAM).

IMO, if the heavy spring fails the behavior will probably be somewhat determined by what is left of the spring. The behavior could be somewhat unpredictable in either design.

I agree that this would be an extremely rare type of failure. In almost 40 years of diving, I have never heard of a main spring failure, except for maybe here in some post.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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