At What Point Do You Become A Boat For Hire And What Are The Legal Ramifications?

[Bopper]

Some friends and I were discussing buying a boat as a partial ownership arrangement. Three of us would each buy 1/3rd ownership and split the various ongoing expenses that come along w. owning a boat. I was discussing this w. another friend who was not part of the buying arrangement, and told him I was thinking about charging fellow dive friends each time we went out (would never net a profit though. Not even close). So in a sense I would be recouping some of my outlays for the expense of the boat. He told me that under maritime law, as soon as any form of compensation or remuneration is given to a boat owner, that boat now becomes a boat for hire. And I guess there are additional liabilities and expectations placed on a boat for hire? Is my friend correct? If not, at what point does a boat cross a legal threshold as to whether you're simply taking a pleasure boat ride w. a friend or going on a chartered boat? What are the ramifications of being classified as a boat for hire?

Thanks!

 

[Wookie]

If the boat carries Passengers-for-hire (that is, any person who contributes materially to the voyage) Passenger for Hire: means a passenger for whom consideration is contributed as a condition of carriage on the vessel, whether directly or indirectly flowing to the owner, charterer, operator, agent, or any other person having an interest in the vessel then the vessel becomes a charter vessel. Your insurance changes, as you just became a commercial vessel, and licensing conditions apply. If your buds want to contribute gas, grass, or a$$, then it is a contribution, and no passenger for hire situation exists, but if you tell the passenger that as a condition of carriage they must buy 20 gallons of gas, the gas becomes a condition of carriage, your buds become passengers for hire, and you need to go get a license.

Take a few friends out on the boat. Everyone knows that they help buy beer, lunch, or fuel as a part of going diving with friends. Most are happy to do so. Those that aren't don't get invited back.

As an aside, how will you divide this boat with your 2 partners? I've seen more friendships ruined by going in partners on a boat....

 

[MaxE]

Your friend may be correct from a legal perspective. I have never gone fishing with someone where we don't all split the gas, bait, ice, whatever. If someone pitches in for gas on a car trip do you become a cab? I think the lawyer people would have many opinions on this. Anyone can sue for anything. A passanger on one of your partners trips who paid nothing for the pleasure can sue you (who were not on the trip) because the ride was bumpy and they got sick. You own the boat. They might not win but they can sue you and you will have to defend yourself.

 

[Bopper]

I think Wookie's answer is exactly what I was looking for.

However, let's say you did get into the habit of only inviting back guests that made voluntary contributions. I wonder if an attorney could argue that a contribution had become a de facto condition of carriage on a vessel; that potential guests in fact knew and understood that they wouldn't get rides out on the boat if they didn't contribute. Then the liability might fall back on the owners....???

Regarding how the partnership will be divided, that is a question that cannot be answered in a post. It makes my head spin to think of all the details involved. Scheduling, payments, maintenance, sweat equity, shared responsibilities, safety, training, repairs, gas, haul outs, guest policies,....woof.

 

[Chugwhump]

I think Wookie's answer is exactly what I was looking for.

I wonder if an attorney could argue that a contribution had become a de facto condition of carriage on a vessel; that potential guests in fact knew and understood that they wouldn't get rides out on the boat if they didn't contribute. Then the liability might fall back on the owners....???
[/QUOTEsxx]

An attorney can make just about ANY argument they choose.

As long as nobody gets hurt, this most prolly NEVER be an issue.
However,
If something happens, it can become expensive and tricky.

Chug
Has had this conversation with several attorneys.

 

[Wookie]

When you get invited on someone's boat you help. You help clean it after the trip, you buy gas, you buy lunch, you buy beer, heck, you buy air fills, because none of that comes even close to the expense of running a boat. It should never have to be spoken, it just is.

No one will ever cite you for running a charter if you never solicit payment from a client. As you said in the first post, anyone can be sued for anything, but I wouldn't fear that operating as a charter operator would be brought up in court, that's too much of a stretch for a jury member to make. What isn't is a perceived duty of care you may owe to a bud on your boat.

Don't sweat the small stuff, but don't solicit funds from your passengers, either.

 

[mmerriman]

at this precise moment - "told him I was thinking about charging fellow dive friends each time we went out" - you became a vessel for hire.

 

[Tortuga James]

This thread made me think. At what point can a charter boat turn back into a private trip? We call them "Fun days". Or once we are licensed Captains for hire, do we always carry the burden of responsibility we have when we run paying charters?

 

[Wookie]

This thread made me think. At what point can a charter boat turn back into a private trip? We call them "Fun days". Or once we are licensed Captains for hire, do we always carry the burden of responsibility we have when we run paying charters?

I have a recreational endorsement on my COD. I log the type of voyage in the log (I understand you are not required to keep a vessel log) and sometimes I make recreational voyages. If you have a recreational endorsement as well as coastwise,, you can choose the choice of voyage type.

 

[Tortuga James]

Thanks for the tip Frank. I have Recreational, Fishery and Coastwise on my COD.