Are PADI OWD allowed to teach scuba diving during pool demos?

[ddunlop]

Hi,

I have a question pertaining to pool demos. I am an Open Water Diver. I have been certified for 8 years and have around 175 dives around the world. I am working towards my Divemaster at the moment. I am wondering if there are any PADI rules regarding Open Water divers, taking non certified divers off the beach/pool area, suiting them up in all the gear, an then taking them scuba diving around the swimming pool to"introduce" them to diving.

To me this seems like craziness, yet this is happening at a 5 star accredited Instructor school here in Mexico. I would think one would have to be at least a Divemaster in order to do this, let a lone an Open Water Diver. Some of the interns at this operation are doing the pool demos are just OWD's with less than 20 dives. 2 weeks ago they would of been the ones being introduced to scuba diving, in yet now they are showing others around the pool.

Can someone please help me with the PADI guidelines around this? Is this allowed?

Thank you,
Derek

 

[knotical]

PADI’s Discover Scuba Diving (DSD) program requires at least a Divemaster who has gone through additional training to become what is called a DSD Leader. Unless there is other extenuating info such as it being done by others (non-PADI) in a shared use pool, then it is a violation of PADI standards and should be reported to PADI.

If this is being done by DiveMaster Candidates, is their instructor present and in control? i.e. could one argue that the instructor is conducting the program?

 

[tstormdiver]

If someone has the equipment & can get the air fills, there would be nothing to stop them. However....... if something goes wrong & someone gets hurt or worse,.... expect to lose any & everything they own. Active diving professionals carry liability insurance. Even with insurance, the professional risks losing everything. Question is,... Is it worth the risk?

 

[Diver0001]

Hi,

I am wondering if there are any PADI rules regarding Open Water divers, taking non certified divers off the beach/pool area, suiting them up in all the gear, an then taking them scuba diving around the swimming pool to"introduce" them to diving.

Yes there are. It is strictly forbidden.

If you have witnessed this first hand and you are SURE that the operator is doing this and presenting it to clients as a legitimate PADI programme, then this is a very serious and and dangerous situation that needs to be brought to PADI's attention immediately. If you want I can help you contact the right people.

R..

 

[demed]

Hi,

I have a question pertaining to pool demos. I am an Open Water Diver. I have been certified for 8 years and have around 175 dives around the world. I am working towards my Divemaster at the moment. I am wondering if there are any PADI rules regarding Open Water divers, taking non certified divers off the beach/pool area, suiting them up in all the gear, an then taking them scuba diving around the swimming pool to"introduce" them to diving.

To me this seems like craziness, yet this is happening at a 5 star accredited Instructor school here in Mexico. I would think one would have to be at least a Divemaster in order to do this, let a lone an Open Water Diver. Some of the interns at this operation are doing the pool demos are just OWD's with less than 20 dives. 2 weeks ago they would of been the ones being introduced to scuba diving, in yet now they are showing others around the pool.

Can someone please help me with the PADI guidelines around this? Is this allowed?

Thank you,
Derek

Derek,

anyone can teach anything - whether they are qualified to do it, or they can issue credentials is a different issue.

A PADI affiliated facility (resort, dive center, 5 star, etc) MUST ensure PADI and non-PADI courses and experience programs are conducted by certified instructors in current teaching status and members of recognized certification organizations.

If you believe that the facility is offering programs conducted by non-certified instructors you can call PADI at 1-800-7297234 to report quality issues. As a Divemaster in training, you are not a PADI member yet, so you are not obligated to report a quality issue, but once you become active you will have a duty to report such issues.

thanks,
/dd

 

[RJP]

If this is being done by DiveMaster Candidates, is their instructor present and in control? i.e. could one argue that the instructor is conducting the program?

PADI DMC's can conduct such programs in confined or open water IN A ROLL-PLAYING fashion using other DMCs, teaching assistants, or staff/instructors acting as "participants."

A PADI DMC can not lead any programs involving NON-CERTIFIED divers - even if indirectly or directly supervised by an instructor.

OP - at a DM/Instructor training center (as is common in Mexico and other places) there are usually multriple candidates in a DM program. Are you 100% certain that what you saw was NOT a DM candidate leading a role-playing exercise where the participants were actually other candidates, rather than non-certified divers? Unless you personally knew/checked the certification status of the "participants" you really would not know whether you were watching a blatant standards violation or a perfectly acceptable training exercise.

 

[DENLASCUBA]

This is a serious issue but as RJP mentioned this could be an exercise. Also you stated they were only certified 2 weeks ago with 20 dives, did they tell you this first hand? Now they may be fairly new divers who completed open water, AOW, and rescue in 2 weeks and are now working on their DM course so they may seem/be inexperienced but this is a whole other subject always under debate. I am not saying not to notify PADI but please make sure you have the correct information/ facts before doing so and then they will investigate the issues.

 

[ddunlop]

I am 100% certain that the people giving the instruction were not dive masters. I was working as a Divemaster Intern for Dressel Diver International.

I am currently an Open Water Diver, and during pool demo's Dressel assigned us to work in pairs. One person working in the pool doing the instruction, and the other walking around the pool enticing hotel guests to come into the pool and try out scuba diving. The goal was to sell Discover Scuba diving courses, or better yet, Open Water Courses. Dressel Divers is very strict on how much we must sell, as they will terminate our internship if we do not sell to their expectations (and expectations are high). I usually got assigned to the pool duty (giving the instruction) as Dressel wanted its more experienced people working the customers off the pool deck, in order to increase their sales. They didn't want a fresh intern who didn't know how to sell causing them to lose out on a sale.

So the least experienced person (myself and others) were often the one giving the instruction. The other more experienced interns, were to focus on selling the product and closing the sale. Now, some of these more experienced sellers were DM's or Instructors, but the majority of them were not. Most days I was was working with another intern, me being OWC, and the other intern being Advanced Open Water (he was certified AOW a few weeks ago with Dressel). Even on days where I was working with a DM or Instructor, they were largely not present during the pool instruction that I was giving. Just as Dressel didn't want them to waste time, and so they were constantly finding the next person for me to take in the water. On other days I was largely left to myself, responsible for enticing people from around the hotel area into the water and suiting them up and scuba diving around the pool with them.

I am currently in the process of writing a very detailed letter to the company detailing my experience and I wanted to have more information regarding the PADI guidelines surrounding pool demos to include in this letter. There are several other things Dressel Divers is doing that are illegal and rather deplorable, mainly in the way they exploit their interns (I have a lawyer here in Mexico currently reviewing these other issues)

I have talked to other dive centers here in Playa Del Carmen and have been told several times that PADI is aware of the rules being broken by Dressel Divers, but that they turn a blind eye due to the fact the amount of money Dressel Divers makes them. I am hoping this is not true, but apparently they are telling me since PADI is no longer owned by Divers, it is more business orientated.

 

[RJP]

Hmm... an interesting "Name & Shame" first ScubaBoard thread for you.

So you're in a DM internship currently - ostensibly with all the appropriate PADI materials, standards, etc - but needed to come here to "get more information regarding the PADI guidelines"?

 

[ddunlop]

Hmm... an interesting "naming names" first ScubaBoard thread for you.

So you're in a DM internship currently - ostensibly with all the appropriate PADI materials, standards, etc - but needed to come here to "get more information regarding the PADI guidelines"?

Yes, I came here for information on Pool Demo's, as I only have the Open Water Book, and guess what there isn't any info in there on pool demos.

So the next time you need to make some snide remark on my intentions, keep it to yourself. I am not here to waste anyone's time and you shouldn't judge me based on how new I am to this forum.