Are Buddy's really covered in the courses...

[mibaro]

When I was reading the thread about the buddy that "ditched" his friend ( http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=174841 ), it got me thinking...

How well does the PADI course cover the responsibilities of what it means to be a buddy...

In my class, we were told about checking each others equipment before the dive, but it didn't really go into detail as to how important a buddy is during the dive.

For myself, I usually dive with my wife, and we stay about 10-15 feet away from each other always keeping an eye on each others where abouts. Same thing when we had a solo diver join us as a threesome.

Having said that, I don't think the Padi course emphasized how important a buddy is. The only drill I remember doing was at the bottom of a pool with my buddy right beside me and I had to breath out of their regulator.

Is this the same experience other divers have had. I'ld be interested to hear from some instructors as to what the Padi course says they need to cover on this subject, and what they add from their own experience.

Michael

 

[DiveMaven]

I don't know about what the PADI materal might specify, but our instructor HAMMERED into us that your buddy is your lifeline and what being a good buddy is.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

To my concern, the only OW class I'm aware of that spends any time covering that topic is the YMCA. Individual instructors may do a better job than required, but for the most part the major agencies assume that the diver will be vacation diving in the tropics and led by a DM, and treat the topic of buddy skills accordingly (i.e. not much at all).

I think all agencies will state in their OW materials that it's important to dive with a buddy ... but I've yet to see student materials from any of them that really give you much for clues as to how to be a good one.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Guba]

I just assumed that the emphasis my instructor placed on buddies was part of the PADI material. In addition to the pre-dive routines, we had "buddy checks". That meant that when my instructor came up behind you and shut off your air, you were to find your buddy to share from them. The DM's and instructor would NOT share theirs! This was only in controlled environments, of course, but the message was clear. Know where your buddies were at all times so you could get to them easily and they could get to you.

 

[letterboy]

 

[trtldvr]

Guba,
Your instructor got the point across quite well, but he could certainly get himself in a world of trouble. If my students are not paying attention to their buddy, I signal them that they are out of air. This may not be as dramatic as turning off their air, but it is certainly a lot safer. I would prefer not to have to explain to a students family or a lawyer why their loved one enbolized in a swimming pool.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Buddy diving techniques are not really part of agency standards in my experience except with GUE. PADI tells you to always dive with a buddy and some skills require buddy participation but actually diving with a regular buddy is the best lesson. You learn each other's strength's and weaknesses. How you and they react to most situations(there will always be surprises). These are things that really can't be taught. THere are general skills and things to do such as maintaing a certain distance for a given dive depending on conditions. Keeping an eye on each other's air, speed at which you are going to swim, depth you'll maintain etc. I dive with alot of different people of varying ability and experience. In these cases I will often let them lead the dive if they choose since i know I can maintain proper contact and adjust to their diving style. If they allow me to lead then I like to do an easy orientation/introduction type profile to see where they are. Once that is established then we'll decide on what types of dives we are comfortable with. I also solo dive and believe that every person in the water needs to have a certain level of self sufficiency. I do not like diving with people, unless they are students, who have in some way been taught to rely on me for their safety and enjoyment. In the keys there is no DM in the water most times. The last time I was there,I for the most part did not have an assigned buddy. I did my thing within the limits of my ability, skill, and comfort running into people from the boat from time to time. On the deeper stuff a buddy was required but I managed to get hooked up with some good people who had experience and skills comparable or greater than mine and had a great time. IMO you can go over the basics of buddy skills but not everyone you come into contact with will have been taught these skills. Better to rely on yourself with an unknown quantity than find out the hard way the Joe Instabuddy is a disaster waiting to happen. And rescue course is a good idea if you are going to be in situations where this might occur.

 

[scarefaceDM]

Buddy..hummm that is NOT covered well in the PADI standards. They do teach buddy stuff...but most when the get certified forget the importance of good buddy skills. From what I have seen thus far. Good buddies are hard to come by especially ones whom dive regularly.

It depends on how good your instructor is. Most of my Instructors up to DM course, hammered buddy diving into our skulls... NEVER did an instructor turn off our air. That is plain disregard for diver saftey in a course environment.

GUE courses emphasis BUDDIES. so does DIR-F. Buddy diving or TEAM diving is the way to the dark side of diving...they do how ever drink kool aid for some reason.

Safe dives

 

[deepblueme]

Once more it is talked about in every lesson and all over the text materials but it is up to the Instructor to teach it and make sure the student "GETS IT".

It is true that most of the cert agencys are training to the level of "warm water gudied diving" because that is what most of the divers comming into class are there to learn. But as I said it is up to the Instructor to make sure the students are swimming away with the knowlage they need to be good buddys/good divers.

Heck we are all supposed to be good buddys in daily life right? When was the last time you stopped to help someone with a flat tire or reach something on a shelf in the grocery store.


By the way some of us learned way back in the day, so student harrasment was the norm the DM/Inst would/could turn off your air, rip off your mask, pull on your reg, pretty much anything they wanted to do that they thought would make you a better diver.
But waaaa waaaa waaa the legal system wont let you do that kind of stuff any more and I know there are some old time Inst. out there that still do it and get away with it.
Was talking to a diver last night that said her DM pulled her mask off from behind and the Inst said it was to pretend you got your mask kicked off. She took her lesson 2 years ago.

 

[fisherdvm]

I still believe, as a solo diver, who has to live with what ever buddy you are assigned to, you are solo in the water.

Which means, if you have a "bad" buddy, which is about 95% of the time, you stay close to the dive master, or group leader... You do your part by checking on the where about of your "bad" buddy on a sporadic basis. If he is out of sight, that's his own fault.

If a dive master is not available, then I would stay near that buddy. Probably more for his sake than mine. If we are in a group, I would stay near the group.

The biggest mistake I have made is to follow a bad buddy. At electric beach in Hawaii, this young man wanted to hang around the hot water exhaust of the electric plant. Trying to swim to stay near him, I was caught in the hot exhaust and blasted out to sea. Of course, he could not care less where I was. It was a struggle to swim back in, and he never even cared what happened to his buddy.