APV Evolution! is it worth it?

[JonnyB]

Anyone have any kind of knowledge about this fine machine,
that can actually share with me the pros and cons. I know price is! But is it worth it in the end?

kind regards
Jonny

 

[caveseeker7]

"Pleasure is worth what you can afford to pay for" is a phrase supposedly coined by newspaper magnate William Randolph Hearst. He build himself Hearst Castle in San Simeon ... .

And that's just the pleasure, I don't know if there's a need.
Considering the specs of the unit I would think pleasure is more likely than need.

The new electronics are a step forward, albeit an expensive one in comparison to what they offer. I like the handset/HUD combo better than the dual displays currently used. But aside from the wrist-mounted rather than dangling/clipped handset being more convinient to view, and the HUD improving safety by being in your field-of-vision, the only thing you get for the additional money is download capability and upgrade possibilities ... .

Deco software costs extra, the ADV, laughable as that is, costs extra, a decent sized wing costs extra. On an $8500 rebreather that's borders ridiculous. Same goes for 2hrs. runtime of the scrubber. Even the "cheap" little Ray has an EC rating of 110 min, the Dolphin's EC rating is twice that of the Evolution ... .
I wouldn't want to have to change the scrubber onboard everytime I take one of the local boats.

The small size should ease travelling with the RB, and make it more comfortable to get in and out of the water.
The small 13 cu.ft. cylinders translate into the need to carry an independent bailout tank for even the most recreational of dive profiles, negating some of the weight/size advantage of the unit. As does the need to haul around another load of sorb or a spare scrubber.

Finally, there may well be bugs in the new electronics that need to be worked out. I for one wouldn't want to be part of end-user testing without an alternative to keep diving while mods are made. The initial HH users could always fall back on their stock head/electronics. The initial Evo (and Inspiration with factory upgrades) user won't be able to do that.
So even if the above mentioned limits were not an issue for me I'd wait for a year or so to make sure(r) I'm not grounded from the get-go.

And with all the work they put into upgrades I find it incomprehensible that they didn't add decent water drains to their breathing bags.

The scrubber monitor is optional, and that's one of two options I approve of. (The other being trimix deco software, asking for trimix certification first is a good idea). That's a waste of money in my book. Having toyed around with an ExtendAir equiped Dolphin last weekend I have to say that the ease and covenience of use can't be beat. As long as the dive duration isn't diminished I'd rather spend the money on that system. Takes care of channeling, something the thermo monitor isn't going to tell you about. If 'TechBlue' is right, scrubber duration would even be improved, making that a better option in regards to the scrubber.

The main advantage APD has over other units, and shares with Dräger, are:
- they have bigger businesses behind their RB operations
- they are build in fairly large numbers by established manufacturers
- they have a large user and support base, which means
- fairly short times to get units and spares, and
- in EC countries are legally available


For my money, I'd rather go with a Prism Topaz or Megalodon, in that order.
In other words, the Evolution isn't worth it for me. As I said up front, if it is for you only you will be able to answer.

 

[JonnyB]

thanks for the info, nice talking to you again.
I know my first choice is the Prism Topaz i am anxiusly awaiting the CE approval. Just felt that i needed to get some info from people who knows/seen the evolution, it looks neet, specially for traveling, i heard about the price which was not my main concern, but i really dont like what i have been reading about the scrubber durration.

p.s anyone with new info about the CE approval of the prism? Last i heard was that sometime this fall perhaps.
kind regards
Jonny Bekkestad

 

[caveseeker7]

... get some info from people who knows/seen the evolution ...

Well, I saw it at DEMA, you probably saw the pics I took at Janwillem's website. Nicky from APD talked me through the new electronics, the only thing I didn't see was the inside of the new scrubber (with thermo sensors) and head. I wonder if they sorted out the condensation problems of the old head.

The overall package looks great, small stuff like color coordination, matching the HUD mount's design to the DSV, all nicely finished. But stuff like that is eye candy, the scrubber duration is too limited for what I want out of an RB.
I did like the Jeep style cover buckles though, they looked much more durable than the little plastic thingies on the Inspiration.

... specially for traveling ...

That's one of the reasons I prefer the Prism or Meg. Either one is more modular and hence easier to transport. Either will take tanks between 13 and 40 cu.ft. which gives you more options at your destination. For the Meg you can even get different size scrubbers depending on your need, decreasing size and weight (and duration).

p.s anyone with new info about the CE approval of the prism?

Shas is up-to-date. I wouldn't hold my breath, CE will come but I'm not sure when. The integrated RGBM deco computer with HDD screen has high priority, and assembling & delivering rigs.
But you can always PM or e-mail her and ask where they are with CE testing.

 

[caveseeker7]

thanks for the info, nice talking to you again.
I know my first choice is the Prism Topaz

Jonny, just put up a couple of pictures from a recent dive trip to Catalina Island.
Have a look, I think you'll like them.
Stefan

 

[RebreatherBoy]

I think the Evolution is a great rebreather, packed with features, and for most divers, the right size.

The only advantage I see for my Inspiration is when doing extended range diving.....then there is no comparison.

But for local boat trips, the ease and convenience of the Evolution is there.

 

[caveseeker7]

RB Boy,
I'm not out to knock the Evo or burst your bubble. Either I'm missing something or you and I have a different idea of great.

I think the Evolution is a great rebreather, packed with features, and for most divers, the right size.

Great? I don't see that. Good ... probably. Pretty good ... certainly.
But this is one expensive rebreather that doesn't offer all that much standard:
2 hour scrubber duration - 10 min more than the $1650 Ray ....

2 ltr tanks - bailout. Never leave home without it

wrist-mounted pO2 readout - is there a CCR that doesn't have that ?
(on the Prism you have the option between standard HDD or wristmounted)

HUD - the Meg offers that as an option. The Prism has is standard, and a better one at that. Not only do you get setpoint okay/high/low, but also low battery warning and cell deviation warning.

The rest is optional:
ADV - optional on the Meg, too. Standard on the Prism.

thermo monitor - standard on the Meg, not available on the Prism. Not necessary in my book as I posted above as it doesn't actually monitor CO2.

deco computing - according to the Hammerhead manual those electronics will be available in the Meg. If that's the case it's probably the better deal. They are proven, hold the setpoint better than the Inspiration ever did, and are already available for trimix (the Evo currently only for Nitrox). At DEMA Kevin told me is considering adding a depth transducer and deco software to the secondary, which would give you redundant deco computers, too. Which, by the way, also work off the RB on an OC rig. The Prism will get an integrated RGBM computer with a HUD screen as an option.

BCD - the 22ltr (about 48lbs) is optional, 16 (35lbs or so) standard. On Inspirations I've only seen the optional larger ones. The Meg has no BC at all, the Prism has 48lbs standard.

What bothers me is what isn't available: loop drains and scrubber time.
No easy way to drain water out of the loop. I can't believe that they didn't change that. The Meg has one, the Prism two.
Specs for the Evo say 21kg weight, that's 46lbs. The Prism weights in at 47 lbs, but has a 6 lbs scrubber that's been tested for 300 minutes.

So what am I missing that makes the Evolution great?

Maybe look at it in another way: You have an Inspiration, right?
You can get the new electronics/head/HUD kit for about $4,500. That would turn your Inspiration from whatever you consider it now into a great rebreather. Do you think that it's worth to do that upgrade at that price?

I'd go with the Hammerhead that includes deco for 2/3 of that price ... .

But for local boat trips, the ease and convenience of the Evolution is there.

Depends on the local trips. Around here most dive boats do 3-4 1hr. dives on day trips. With two hour run time you can either cut them short (like most people on OC), dive two and be done for the day or refill the scrubber onboard. I rather do that at home where I have my time, space, and don't bother half the people on deck. Simple as that.

 

[padiscubapro]

deco computing - according to the Hammerhead manual those electronics will be available in the Meg. If that's the case it's probably the better deal. They are proven, hold the setpoint better than the Inspiration ever did, and are already available for trimix (the Evo currently only for Nitrox). At DEMA Kevin told me is considering adding a depth transducer and deco software to the secondary, which would give you redundant deco computers, too. Which, by the way, also work off the RB on an OC rig.

Leon has shipped a few "Hammer-Megs" already, a bunch more will be shipped shortly.. The head is incredible clean..

Leon ships Kevin the "top" plate, kevin installs electronics and ships back to Leon.. Leon finishes assembly and off it goes...

AT BTS, kevin had hammerheads installed in
several inspirations, a bmr 500, at least 2 mk 15s, a ccr2000 (these were all diver's working rigs) and a few hammer megs were there (just the completed heads), I dont remebber if he had a Hammer-KiSS there..
He also has A CIS there as well since he is the service center..

 

[padiscubapro]

I think the Evolution is a great rebreather, packed with features, and for most divers, the right size.

The only advantage I see for my Inspiration is when doing extended range diving.....then there is no comparison.

But for local boat trips, the ease and convenience of the Evolution is there.

2 hour scrubber is a joke for anyone contemplating multiple dives..Even in NY where we only do 2 dives a day, unless I wanted to do short dives I'd be forced to change the scrubber on board (even If I only planned 2 1 hour dives (not very likely), thats eliminating the biggest advantage of a CCR diver, the time contraint if something goes wrong..)
WIth the smaller scrubber there is much les "padding" to the scrubber times in an EMERGENCY. (re: noone can maintain a 1.6co2 production for 2 hours nevermind 3) The best rule if you want to keep the captain happy is not change scrubber on his boat.. sooner or later you will spill the sorb and you'll have one unhappy capt.. I do know of boats that dont let RB divers on because they have had messes made already.
If you want the new electronics get the newer inspiration (or upgrade your existing unit).. The evolution is a traveling persons rig who is basically going to do similiar profiles to everyone else on board (read OC divers).

The smaller primary cylinders are totally unacceptable for any bail out.. the old 3l cylinders are just barely acceptable (assuming they are filled for each dive) for shallow dives..

 

[caveseeker7]

Leon has shipped a few "Hammer-Megs" already, a bunch more will be shipped shortly.. The head is incredible clean..

Now that is good news. Glad to hear that, for both of them.

AT BTS, kevin had hammerheads installed in ... a ccr2000 ...
He also has A CIS there as well since he is the service center..

If I remember the CCR2000 comes/came with only one pO2 display, no redundancy. That in and by itself makes the HH a good upgrade for it.

A CIS ... now that is much closer to greatness than an Evolution.
And even the CIS wasn't perfect.

And Joe, why aren't you sleeping?