Apeks vs. Zeagle

[travis99]

Hey everyone, first let me say I am new to diving, and I do know how little I know. So I am looking for some good sound advice on my life support system. I am currently looking for a regulator that will allow me to grow as my experience does. I eventually want to get into tech and wreck/cave diving, but right now I want to get much more experience before I "dive" into something deeper than I can handle.

I would love to hear your thoughts. My budget is around $600-$700 for the reg.

Thanks
Travis

 

[keithdiver]

Hey everyone, first let me say I am new to diving, and I do know how little I know. So I am looking for some good sound advice on my life support system. I am currently looking for a regulator that will allow me to grow as my experience does. I eventually want to get into tech and wreck/cave diving, but right now I want to get much more experience before I "dive" into something deeper than I can handle.

I would love to hear your thoughts. My budget is around $600-$700 for the reg.

Thanks
Travis

I have the Zeagle 50d, and the envoy as a backup, love them both When i first go them, i forgot to turn on the ventuir i still had no issues breathing with them. Smooth at 20 feet like they are at 130 feet. Great regs, price is good and the warr. is awesome, very happy with them.

 

[travis99]

Thanks for the info Keith. I am also an "above water photographer" and I would love to get some artistic underwater stuff. Here is a link to my photography site, ourlittlestudio.com I guess I do ok above water, so I want to try my skills below the surface.

 

[keithdiver]

Thanks for the info Keith. I am also an "above water photographer" and I would love to get some artistic underwater stuff. Here is a link to my photography site, ourlittlestudio.com I guess I do ok above water, so I want to try my skills below the surface.

Will check out the site

 

[Bubbletrubble]

The Apeks XTX50 with DST or DS4 first stage is a very nice setup. Any balanced adjustable second stage would work nicely as an octo or backup reg. For servicing convenience, select one of the Apeks second stages (XTX20/40/50) for that. The guts of all of these second stages are essentially the same. The XTX50 is distinguished by a user-adjustable inhalation adjustment knob (nice but not essential -- I like using mine). The XTX40 and 50 both have a heat exchanger nut that's supposed to help with cold water diving. The XTX20 is only recommended for diving down to 50°F, but I suspect that if it's tuned properly you could dive it in water temps in the 40s.

Zeagle and other reg manufacturers also make quality products. One of the advantages of Zeagle is that the company doesn't engage in fixed price games (MAP) like Aqualung/Apeks does.

If you are interested in going the tech route, it might be helpful to talk to tech divers in your local area to see what regs they recommend. Often times, availability of local service can determine which reg divers go with. Something else to keep in mind is that tech divers will collect several identical reg setups over the years -- this simplifies getting repair parts and servicing. Typically they will gravitate towards robust/workhorse regs which aren't necessarily the most expensive reg in a manufacturer's line. Many will learn to do their own reg servicing and tuning. For this reason, it might be helpful to get a reg that's straightforward to work on. I learned on my own to service my Apeks regs...it was fairly easy. I suspect that one could do the same with Zeagle regs.

Hope this info helps...

 

[CaliJoe]

Hi Travis, welcome to diving. First off let me say that the two brands you quoted are very good and they both have decent lines within them. However being established brands means that a huge part of the price goes to pay for the opportunity to use that brand. I cannot say that I have used any Zeagle regs as I have no diving friends who own them. I have tried breathing from Apeks regs and I prefer the ATX 100 to the XTX 200. That said the XTX line has one very useful feature if you see yourself getting into sidemount diving, the LP hose can be mounted on the left side of the second stage. Also, the XTX line have relaceable exhalation diverters. Should you find the standard pieces too short you can remove them and attach the extended(longer) diverters.

On to other brands. If you are dead set on having diaphragm regs it would be well worth your while to consider HOG D-1s as well. Their first stages are similar to the Apeks DST and the flow rate is just as good. The D-1 second stage is an Apeks clone but actually operates more smoothly than the Apeks regs I have tried albeit the the spring tension adjustment is not as genrous as that of the Apeks. Upon bench testing both brands the HOG D-1 actually "cracked" sooner than the Apeks which translates into lighter inhalation effort. I am sure the Apeks could have been adjusted to crack sooner but that is how the reg came out of the box. Another thing worthy of note on the HOG D-1s; these regs are being marketed specifically to the tech diver. They encourage you to learn how to service your own regs and Dive Right In Scuba(DRIS) is teaching that regulator service course.

Piston regulators on the other hand have the advantage of being gas flow kings and of all the brands I have tried(Atomic, IDI now XS Scuba, ScubaPro, etc.) the latest offering from Sherwood, the SR-1, has the lightest breathing effort I have yet experienced.

Presently, I am using IDI Seaira firsts coupled to HOG D-1 seconds. I can't quite afford the SR-1at $610 a set. The D-1 firsts were O2 cleaned and are now serving as deco regs coupled to either Poseidon Jets or Atlantis(Tilos) seconds.

BTW, the low end of the budget you quoted is enough to set you up with a doubles reg set-up(2 firsts, 2 seconds, 1 SPG and the attendant hoses) at DRIS. Below is the link for this offer.

http://www.diverightinscuba.com/catalog/doubles-package-p-2596.html

 

[Bubbletrubble]

On to other brands. If you are dead set on having diaphragm regs it would be well worth your while to consider HOG D-1s as well. Their first stages are similar to the Apeks DST and the flow rate is just as good. The D-1 second stage is an Apeks clone but actually operates more smoothly than the Apeks regs I have tried albeit the the spring tension adjustment is not as genrous as that of the Apeks. Upon bench testing both brands the HOG D-1 actually "cracked" sooner than the Apeks which translates into lighter inhalation effort. I am sure the Apeks could have been adjusted to crack sooner but that is how the reg came out of the box.

It's exceedingly difficult for a beginner diver who knows nothing about reg servicing/tuning to get a good apples-to-apples comparison between regs made by different manufacturers. Personally, I wouldn't trust the way a reg is tuned "out of the box" to accurately reflect the performance of that reg. Probably the best you're going to be able to do is ask a competent reg tech to tune the first stages to the midpoint manufacturer-recommended i.p. and then set the second stages to the same easy-to-breathe cracking pressure (whatever is preferred by the diver). Then take each reg setup for a test dive and subjectively compare breathing at various depths.

Don't get me wrong. I'm sure that the HOG regs breathe great. Their price is very competitive. I am impressed that the company is open to selling service kits online and will support DIY servicing for tech divers. I wish other reg manufacturers shared this attitude. The unknowns with HOG regs include: (a) how they will hold up over time and (b) whether parts will be available down the road (in case the company closes shop or gets bought out). Apeks, Aqualung, and Scubapro have a long track record of making parts available for their regs over several decades. Zeagle has been making its own regs for about 10 years now (previously the company rebadged Apeks regs). HOG regs have only been on the market for a couple of years (correct me if I'm wrong). The OP should definitely consider these additional factors before making his reg purchase.

 

[CaliJoe]

I brought the possibility of HOG D-1s as an alternate because of Travis' confession that he will one day go the tech route. HOG D-1s are indeed in their infancy when stacked up against the more popular brands and that works against HOG when it comes to long-term parts availability, there just is not enough history yet. That said the better regs all seem to stand the test of time and should HOG end up closing shop because of mis-handled affairs you can bet that someone else will take up the marketing of the same regs under a rebadged version, after all DiveRite has been using the same first(albeit with a black finish) as the HOG D-1 in three generations of their regs. DiveRite has switched seconds through all three generations but the first stage has always been carried over. Perhaps when DiveRite inks a deal with the OEM you will see HOG D-1 seconds wearing the DiveRite logo as well.

As for adjustments straight out of the box, again Bubbletrubble is correct. Even with my D-1s I had to adjust the seat 1/16 or less of a turn; there was a slight free flow when I first tested them.