AOW, so what?

[jdb]

Let me start by a breif background and what has brought me to this rant. We will soon have a new artifical reef here in the Gulf (the Oriskany) sitting in approx. 200 fsw standing 150' fsw off the sand. So the dive would start at approx 50 fsw. Most all of the operators are wanting to limit the charters to AOW divers only. And now I just got finished reading a post where all of the posters were putting so much weight on what cert level you had acheived. Here goes the rant.

Is a person with 24 dives and an AOW a better diver then an OW with 500 logged dives????? IMHO,,, No. In fact most of the AOW divers I know around here I would never dive with. Ever! My primary buddy is only OW and I would dive with him over anyone else. The fact is that you buy your cards from most shops and that skill has nothing to do with it. There is no law limiting an OW diver to 60' only a recommendation that if you want to go deeper then just give us more money and then you can. When I finally took my AOW classes I had already dove to depths of more than 110 fsw and logged more dives then most DMs so my AOW classes were a waste of my time and money. I learned nothing new but was forced into takeing them inorder to pursue my dive con. This may be news to alot of you but you don't have to be certified to go diving, nor do you have to be AOW to go below 60'. If you are an Idiot then it doesn't matter how many cards you have you will still be an idiot and no amount of regulation will change that. Besides if we are going to limit this type of dive, then it should be limited to tech and not AOW because if an OW can't be trusted to know his limits then this dive is also past an AOW recommend diveing depth of 130'. Where do you draw the line? Should a AOW be allowed to dive a wreck in 80 fsw if he does not have a wreck cert???? How do you know that the AOW diver won't try to enter the wreck?? Should an OW diver be allowed to dive off a boat with out a boat diving cert?? even if the dive is only in 30 fsw? Should a diver of any level be allowed to do a night dive with out a nightdiveing cert??? I personally will take ability over c-cards any day. Funny thing about ability, you can't buy it like a c-card, you can only earn it from lots of practice.
Thanks for letting me rant, I feel a little better now.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Good points.

My next AOW class comprises two divers ... one with more than 300 dives and the other with almost 250. They have 15 years of experience between them. Neither went further than OW because one is deaf and the other is of Chinese origin and had trouble with the language during OW class. Their biggest challenge is going to be getting through the course material. Mine is going to be finding exercises that will challenge them to learn new skills. I'm working on creative ways to do that.

Both are accomplished divers. So why ... might you ask ... are they even taking the class? Because it's required for them to get rescue certified, and both want to go there.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[oceancrest67]

This kind of rant is as old as many other rants against certification cards vs. experience vs. PADI vs. NAUI vs. SSI vs. any other.

No...AOW does not mean that an AOW diver with 24 dives is better than an OW diver with 500 dives. As you point out, experience and diving experience counts. AOW, Rescue, other specialties or the professional route only help fine tune knowledge on top of experience...what you put into it is what you will get out of it.

The other thing...I would not discount the gains in extra knowledge / certifications. As you go further, learning new techniques and fine tuning one's skills is always important. Yes, some knowledge is repetitive and might seem a waste of time...but, some knowledge is enlightening.

Just my O2.

 

[CBulla]

Challenge is good... lack of is why I have not pursued AOW so far with a shop.

 

[Kat]

It seems that there are way too many people rushing to collect cards. Then having the attitude that they are better divers than anyone else. I know many OW divers who have 100's & 100's of dives under their weight belt. They are excellent divers. They continued their dive education-with actual dive experience. The divers log book tells you more about a diver than any plastic card ever will. I'm not saying everyone should stay OW forever. However, I do think that you should have to dive, lets say, just for arguments sake, 50 dives, before you are allowed to take AOW. I am concerned with the people who rush through the classes. And then, with less than 25 dives, feel like they are now diving experts. They are an accident waiting to happen. Over confident and no actual dive experience.

 

[DBailey]

When I see a dive operation requiring a certain certification level for a dive, I just read it as they are trying to limit their liability. I imagine lawyers would have a field day (if there was an incidient) with a charter taking people to 100 feet when their industry training says they should only go to 60 feet.

I agree with the points you made.

 

[oceancrest67]

Again, the certification card rant has been used before on this board. The argument that agencies are in a profit making motive with supplying extra levels, certifications is old.

Yes, divers that need to flaunt their certifications are indeed insecure divers waiting for an accident. I do not pay much attention to loud mouths and arrogance. I do pay attention to a good teacher, a good diver, a good buddy and I keep my mind open to new knowledge.

 

[OceanusDC]

You make many good points and I fully understand your rant. The restriction has nothing to do with "personal" assumed skill level, it has more to do with liability for the dive operation, the DMs, and the Inst and everyone diving around you.
AOW doesnt mean your a better diver, it means you have been exposed under the care and supervision of a dive professional to an array of dive situations and the saftey requirments associated with them. In other words, as an OW diver with a large number of logged dives, would you know the partial pressure of O2 in a 32% Nitrox mix and the depth limits associated with it? Does knowing it make you a better diver, no. But if your Nitrox certified then the liability is on you. If your not but use it anyway, the liability spreads around. Plus, in the case of AOW, it alows you to come to grips with your own limitations by allowing you to undergo supervised dives in various dive situations. There may not be a 60' depth law but once you pass your level of personal skill and training you put yourself and everyone around you at risk. So, I agree with your frustration but.....

 

[DORSETBOY]

A diver who's just completed their ow course SHOULD have good buoyancy skills, in reality few do which is the fault of the instructor and the system of instruction. If you've got a site in deep water I guess you might be worried about someone losing their buoyancy and going too deep or ascending to fast. Alternatively oyu might want to protect a sensititive site from divers more likely to bounce than swim. Saw it n the similans with a group of newly ow qual divers crawling along the side of richelieu rock dragging themselves along by hand.. oblivious (seemingly) to the lionfish in the crevices!!

not to say someone with aow but only 9 dives is likely to be better than someone wit 500 dives but goes back to a point I've made before.. anyone can make up a log book entry, or dozens of entries but you have to pass a course (whatever you might think of the course) to get a cert card.

 

[jhelmuth]

Your gripe is legit, but it is also not without problems. 500 dives in 40 fsw and not on any wrecks would not be legit to dive any wreck or at depths beyond 60 fsw. So it's not exclusively the dive count either. It always comes down to skills and training (not the kind that comes from c-card collection either). In the end, business have to have some means to weed out hose who are a liability, and our laws are not forgiving in that fact. So AOW certification is going to be the key (and we all agree that it's not the right one). In some small sense, I wonder why some of us choose to b***h so loudly about an easy card that gives us the key we want, but is not respected. When in the final analysis, we really only respect the diver and their display of skills in thieer diving (regardless of what card they have). I don't gripe about paying my $ for the card because it's just to damn little $ in the big picture and a price I'm willing to pay to play. my real gripe is with the standards themselves and how little this actually costs. If it were more $, amybe we'd have better training and requirements (and maybe better divers who take it all more seriously).

Anyway... I'm jumping down off my soap-box now...