AOW needed ??

[mikelegurra]

hi,

question regarding the need for AOW for "deep" diving.

i've been reading some posts regarding habits of several dive operators on the certification needed for deep diving.



i took my OW and plan to do the AOW anyway. my question is this: do operators really, really ask for AOW cards to take you to 30m ?
the OW limit is 18 meters and i plan to do the advanced to improve my skills, learn new ones and become a better diver.
however i wouldn't mind trying some deeper ones before the AOW classes.
keep in mind that i'm a newbie and this may be a very stupid thing i'm asking.
if i plan the dive on the NDL and keep to it it seems to me i'd be allright.
not counting nitrogen narcosis, which i've never felt , is there a big diference between 18 and 30m ?

if you're the only one on a boat that's doing a 30m dive not certified to go that deep, will they get someone (as i think they are supposed to do) to be your buddy and keep you on the 18m limit ? or do they take you deeper and keep an extra eye on you ?

thanks for your input

mikel

 

[pt40fathoms]

This topic has been covered alot on this board.

The short answer to your question is as follows.

The Charter operators opinion is the only opinion that matters. If you show up for boat trip to a dive site that is beyond what is generally accepted as suitable for an OW certification, and you are denied the opportunity to dive because of the lack of an AOW certification. Do not blame anyone else other than yourself. Many divers have years of experience diving deep as well as incurring decompression obligations while diving, and have never attained a certification card. But that was then, this is now, and in todays dive environment, certification has become the industry norm. So, do yourself a favour and take the course, the disapointments you avoid in the future will be worth it. As I have said at the start, the only opinion that matters is held by the one individual who can and will exercise their right to stop you from diving. That is the charter operator, the captain of the boat, or the dive master aboard.

I'm glad to see that you are already prepared to take the AOW course, thats a very good choice. As for diving deep prior to taking your AOW, all I can say is that you will find no underwater police. You are free to do so, however if you read the accident reports published every year by DAN, the phrase "not trained for the dive conducted" or "lacked experience for the environment" seem to pop up far too often. So find a mentor, someone who has alot more experience than you who is willing to help guide you, and go diving. Experience is the key to applying what you have learned, and that goes for every certification you obtain.

 

[RICHinNC]

I would say about 3/4 of the boats I have been on ask for my AOW card, if the
dive ""requires"" it. My last trip was to Barbados and I had my card but one
lad didnt and he wasnt allowed on a deep dive that day. I guess there is litigation
even down there.
I know when I dive off the coast of NC and get paired up with someone I dont know
I personally will ask their level of training and if I know they only have a basic card
then I wont be responsible for them as a buddy. (ducking .....)

Any training you get is good training if you can find a good instructor.
Rich

 

[MikeFerrara]

The 60 ft "limit" for OW isn't a certification limit. It's a recommendation. The PADI text states it as a recommended max depth until you get more training or more experience.

I think many charters are using AOW as a requirement for some dives but if we examin the requirements for the AOW class in general and the deep dive specifically I can punch all kinds of holes in it.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't take the class but I am saying that nothing magical happens in the class that suddenly qualifies you for deep dives. While the AOW deep dive does get you some experience below 60 ft, it doesn't really teach any "deep" diving techniques and even the subject of gas management is largely ignored. If you did the class around here the shop would likely take you to Blue Springs (Indiana) to do the dive and I've never seen a spot deeper than about 55 feet in the whole place.

Great deep dive training wouldn't you say?

 

[mikelegurra]

So, do yourself a favour and take the course, the disapointments you avoid in the future will be worth it.

I'm glad to see that you are already prepared to take the AOW course, thats a very good choice. As for diving deep prior to taking your AOW, all I can say is that you will find no underwater police.

as i've said, and you pointed out, i will, for sure, take the AOW. i was only thinking about a situation that might come up before summer, when i'll do the advanced.

as far as police goes i plan to be my own police. that's why i keep asking questions... to be able to make up my own mind with safety.
i have no desire to stretch any boundaries or limits. i plan to return safely to my wife after every single dive i make. otherwise she'd be the one to "bend" me.

thank you, and everyone else, for the input

 

[H2Andy]

ok, this may draw some flak, but the only way AOW is of any use, in my opinon,
is to take it as soon as possible after you get certified. if you wait any amount of time,
your real-life diving learning will have far exceeded anything you can learn in AOW
after about your 20th to 25th dive. that is of "real" use as in, making your skills better.

if what you want is a card you can show someone when they ask for it, then take it
at any time.

i would also seriously recommend Rescue relatively quickly, say within your first
25-30 dives.

 

[DeepTrip]

I do my deep dive (30m) prior to my AOW certification, BUT, I have read several times of AOW training material, especially about Narcosis, etc. I'm pretty much aware of the Narcosis during my first deep dive, and still ahve clear mind to ascend a little bit. The 2nd deep dive, I barely notice the Narc.

I agree with MikeFerrara, it is a reccomendation. In addition, if you break the reccomendation, USE COMMON SENSE. The reason I do my first deep dive is because I'm fully confident that I can handle every risk as pointed in the training material.

BTW if you dive in Jakarta, they barely check for your AOW certification.

I have a question though. I didn't have my AOW cert, but in my dive log, I have several deep dive, verified by my buddy. Do you think the dive log can be used for exemption for haveing AOW cert for deep dive?

 

[Albion]

ok, this may draw some flak, but the only way AOW is of any use, in my opinon,
is to take it as soon as possible after you get certified. if you wait any amount of time,
your real-life diving learning will have far exceeded anything you can learn in AOW
after about your 20th to 25th dive. that is of "real" use as in, making your skills better.

if what you want is a card you can show someone when they ask for it, then take it
at any time.

i would also seriously recommend Rescue relatively quickly, say within your first
25-30 dives.

Depends on the persons ability, i'm afraid i have seen too many 30 dive rescue wonders, who took the course early and promptly forget what theyv'e been taught. One for example putting a BCD upside down onto a tank (valves facing wrong way is one thing but upside down cmon). Personally i would set
20 dives min for AOW
50 dives Rescue
100 dives to Start DM.
There are always exceptions to the rule, but what hardship will it be getting more experience before taking further training!

 

[ElectricZombie]

hi,
i took my OW and plan to do the AOW anyway. my question is this: do operators really, really ask for AOW cards to take you to 30m ?

Some charters may prefer that you have an AOW card, unless they know you.

the OW limit is 18 meters and i plan to do the advanced to improve my skills, learn new ones and become a better diver.

There is no OW limit to how deep you can go, there is only a suggestion. This is not some sort of set in stone rule. Dive to whatever depth you feel comfortable.

not counting nitrogen narcosis, which i've never felt , is there a big diference between 18 and 30m ?

Nope.

if you're the only one on a boat that's doing a 30m dive not certified to go that deep, will they get someone (as i think they are supposed to do) to be your buddy and keep you on the 18m limit ? or do they take you deeper and keep an extra eye on you ?

You shouldn't be diving on a boat that insists on sending a baby sitter with you on the dive. Your dive is YOUR responsibility. None of the boats I have been on ask anyone about what type of dive they are planning.

If you want to take the AOW class, then by all means take it. However, I think that you would be much better off saving your money and just doing a bunch of dives with some experienced divers. You really don't learn anything in AOW so, some people just skip it.

 

[verona]

hi,

not counting nitrogen narcosis, which i've never felt , is there a big diference between 18 and 30m ?

Yes - 12m!! I'm not being facetious here. The difference is the depth of your first few open water dives. For someone going straight from 18m to 30m can be a big thing psychologically - the surface can seem a long, long way away. If you can see it, that is. Depending on where you dive, you can go from relative light and some viz, to black and no viz between those depths. This is a big difference. Add to that cold water and you could have a dangerous cocktail. Throw in narcosis and it could be problematic.

In clear water, it's not so different. You can still see the surface and the light, though dimmer, is still there. But you're still 12m more from the surface if you need to ascend.

Treat all depth with respect - treat any depth with respect,

Here endeth the lesson!! :54: