AOW after OW - Instructor interest?

[miketsp]

I was just replying to yet another thread discussing when is the best time to do AOW, right after OW or after gaining some experience. In my case, my wife and I did it some 30+ dives after OW and we felt we got a lot more out it like that as we were able to have more in-depth (pardon the pun) discussions with the instructor on a wide range of topics.
I felt that for the instructor it was also much more interesting like this.

So, what is really the instructor's side of this?
Is it more interesting to give AOW to someone with some experience, or is it preferable to catch the students straight out of OW before they form any (more) bad habits?

So an old topic but from a new angle.

 

[chewie]

of course it is more preferable that you would get the AOW after gaining some experience in different diving conditions before plunging into the program. You would want to be as comfortable in the water as possible. This means that you have control of your weighting & bouyancy. the AOW program would expose you to different types of environments & you should at least know how to control yourself down there. just my 2 cents.

 

[Scuba_Steve]

After seeing more than enough idiot moves by Instructors just wanting to get through the AOW at any cost as soon as possible, there's no way I'm touching a diver with roughly (diver dependent issue) 20-30 dives.

I don't get how down our way we can see divers with < 10 dives getting hurt, frightened, dead etc and still continue doing it this way. What's more, even those that don't get burned generally don't learn anything relevant as they're too busy white-knuckling most dives as well as having 10min BT's just to say you were there also does little to enhance the learning.

I'm willing to say that down south, warmer, better vis situations may be slightly different due to student comfort, but not a whole lot.

 

[Dive-aholic]

Here's a twist: It depends on the student.

 

[D_B]

Here's a twist: It depends on the student.

yep, It was that way for us, all of us right out of OW ... BUT, we had the same great instructor for both, we were very comfortable, with good skills so we could absorb what the experience was, and not "white knuckle" it
I think as long as your not still learning basic dive skills, you will get a lot out of it right after OW because your absorbing good skills and methods from your instructor

... As always, it just depends on the student/instructor

sorry, I know you asked from an instructors point of view and I'm certantly not one

DB

 

[Tollie]

It&#8217;s an interesting question.

As a dive educator, naturally I&#8217;m a believer in continuing education for divers. I also believe that continuing education should be progressive. For a diver with 20-30 dives in water similar to that in which he or she was trained I think the A/OW course is wonderful. It enables a diver who by now is itching for something other than the familiar to branch out into new dive environments (deep, night) or use new dive tools (DPV, Search and Recovery) or do different things underwater (Photography, Fish ID (surveys)). Navigation is a wonderful course.

The problem is that most new divers are the ones calling for additional training post-o/w certification rather than the more experienced divers. Think about the length of time the average recreational diver has spent to accumulate 20 to 30 dives, maybe 5 years.

For me the difficulty with the A/OW for new post certification divers is that the A/OW is not really progressive education in that the skills are more modular. For most new divers the basic platform is just not solid enough (lack of experience) to really benefit as they might from the A/OW if they had additional experience.

For the new diver I would prefer to see them take the two dive &#8220;Buoyancy&#8221; specialty. When I work with students in this area I can introduce them to alternate fining techniques, work on trim, work on skills while maintaining solid buoyancy, work on tight control of ascents and descents&#8230; in short tuning up the basic skills that they learned as O/W divers. If I have a couple I can also work on building greater team skills as well.

Just my 2 cents

 

[miketsp]

of course it is more preferable that you would get the AOW after gaining some experience in different diving conditions before plunging into the program. You would want to be as comfortable in the water as possible. This means that you have control of your weighting & bouyancy. the AOW program would expose you to different types of environments & you should at least know how to control yourself down there. just my 2 cents.

Chewie, you said what was best for the student but you didn't answer my question.

From your profile I see that you're an instructor so which would YOU rather have?
A student fresh out of OW or someone with more experience that is going to question a lot of what you say and not just accept that your word is gospel?

 

[Drew Sailbum]

I just taught an AOW to a couple of nice guys. One was a relatively new diver who was first certified about a year ago. He took a couple fun diving trips and had a few recreational dives under his belt. His buddy had been diving for about 20 years.

Such disparity in experience is a challenge for the instructor. You don't want to simply replay experiences that the more experienced diver has done many times before, but you don't want to overwhelm the newer guy.

So if I were to make a general guideline, I'd suggest having at least 10 dives post-OW, but encourage students to complete an AOW program long before hitting the 1000 dive I-knew-Jacque-back-when level of experience.

 

[oly5050user]

I would have no problem for a ow student to do aow immediately after getting certified. if they honestly met all objectives in the first place to get their ow certification..This is what the aow course is designed for..It gives the student additional supervision for these dives..It also gives them a chance to observe more experienced divers(the instr and dm)on a dive and be able to emulate them..They can see how equipment is worn and the different types available.They get to do different skills in the water that through experience,if they stick with it, that they may or may not learn in time on their own..It shortens the learning curve for them and makes it easier..it gives them an idea of different places to dive,different conditions..They meet people at same level as themselves and develop contacts. Obviously ,as in anything else,you get out of it as much as you put in.Most future divers drop out shortly after getting certified for they have no one to dive with,don't know where to go,feel that they need or want someone them give them additional supervision..This approach of completing aow right after ow solves that. I feel stongly enough about it that we offer aow at 1/2 price if student signs up for it immediately after their ow training dives(within 1 week).They can take the course anywhere from the following week to 6 months later at this price as long as they pay the 1/2 price special deal in full within the week of doing their ow certification dives..I have been teaching longer than most of the instructors here have been alive (1971) and this system works.It comes down to the instructor AND the student ,and what effort the student puts into it..

 

[Scuba_Steve]

It's primary purpose is to make money by selling gear, selling books, selling cards. The diver and their education is a secondary concern.

So many divers never move on much past the OW stage, the industry has realized that you have to get them ASAP or lose profits.

Most divers I speak to tell me straight up that they got nothing from their AOW course for one reason or another. They call it nothing more than a paid tour guide where they learned diddly.

Don't shoot the messenger, I'm just listening to the students around here.

This is what I am being told most of the time.

I hope you guys are hearing something different.

Regards