Analox EIICO

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Patti Analox

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Dear Divers,

I don't have to tell you, you guys (informed, willing to share your knowledge, engage in discussion and educate others) are a very VERY tiny fraction of divers in the world. CO awareness STILL does not enter the mind of the vast majority of scuba divers. You guys are saving lives simply by engaging in these valuable discussions.

This being said I have the unpleasant duty to inform all of you that as of 23rd July 2014, Analox will no longer be manufacturing the EII CO. Analox are planning a campaign to work with filling stations and compressor companies to ensure either the CO Clear or ACG+ analyzers are fitted and used to monitor breathing air at the compressor stage. Analox will still be supplying EII CO spares until July 2016.

Now before you give me both barrels, please know Analox is very much committed to diver safety and will continue to educate the diving public regarding the dangers of CO in diving. We will aggressively promote the fitting of CO compressor monitors. Tank monitoring will indeed still be necessary and there are many products still on the market to do so.

Safe Diving,
Patti
 
Hi Patti,

First, thanks again for helping me with my O2 analyzers. Both spot on with the shop's numbers.

Sooooo you gonna tell us why?

My guess, CO monitors are a beast to keep in calibration and give frequent false positives.
 
Hi Patti,

First, thanks again for helping me with my O2 analyzers. Both spot on with the shop's numbers.

Sooooo you gonna tell us why?

My guess, CO monitors are a beast to keep in calibration and give frequent false positives.

Dear Lowviz,

You are most welcome. At the end of the day, the EIICO was a great monitor, but expensive for us to make and expensive for the end user to maintain. We produced quickly it when we were losing divers around the world and there were VERY few options for divers to check their own tanks.

Its performance was never in question, but rather can we make a hand held CO monitor to Analox's high standards and provide it at a reasonable cost to our divers. After several years of sales, we needed to make a decision. We strongly believe all compressors must have an inline CO monitor fitted. You and I both know that's not going to happen and tank monitoring still VERY MUCH need to happen. We analyzed the market and determined divers now have several tank monitoring options, some VERY cost effective.

Knowing our initial fast response to a market need has created the availability of many options for divers to safely check their tanks, it was time for us to cease production. These decisions are never easy!

Safe Diving!
Patti
 
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After July 2016 passes, what are the odds we can substitute another Analox CO sensor for the EIICO's?

Cost is not a problem, but portability very much is: I cannot very well check my tanks on a boat with a :censored:ing CO Clear and/or ACG+, and as nice as it is that Analox is making efforts to sell those products to dive shops, it doesn't solve the problem faced by end users.

tank monitoring still VERY MUCH need to happen. We analyzed the market and determined divers now have several tank monitoring options, some VERY cost effective.

Since these are no longer your competition, I don't feel it's inappropriate to ask you to identify those options here.


I'm also curious what price point (ballpark, obviously) would be necessary for EIICO and replacement EIICO cells to be profitable for Analox. I'm surprised to see this product being discontinued, where it seems like there's an ever-growing demand among the lowest common denominator of divers and no real competition, versus something like helium analysis...where there's a tiny market of tech divers who are generally unimpressed by the Analox offering vs. a pretty broad field of competition.
 
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Hello Patti,

As one of the early adopters and as someone who saw my suggestions incorporated into the EII CO, Analox has earned my business. At the same time I fully understand the business decision that Analox needed to make with regards to the EII CO. That said I would hope that Analox will work a third party mfg to produce compatible cells going forward. That would at least let those of use who have the EII CO go well into the future.

Further, I agree with Analox's decision to go after the compressor market. However, as said above those shops that really need such monitoring are probably are not going to be the ones who step up to the plate. What comes to mind is Analog generously donating CO monitors to the fill stations in Cozumel after their fiascos. Here again I applaud Analox and DAN for stepping up to the plate but damn neither should be doing this - that is handling a commercial business free equipment to so assure their product is fit for human consumption.

All that aside, let me put a bug in your ear that I started investigated a while back. PADI and other dive agencies have premier or 5 star facilities. However, what makes such a facility? Well for me such a facility would have a premier compressor facility - which would include a CO monitor. Well the agencies have no such requirement. They used to have an air quality test requirement of every three months. But they dropped it because it was hard to monitor the program. So I am not sure how well such a system might work with requiring a CO monitor.

However, it sure would be fun to walk into a "premier" facility with some test CO gas and test their facility. So please make sure we end user divers can get test gas that we can travel with.

Cheers,

Allen
 
Obviously with my recent experience this comes a disappointing news. Testing every tank can be a boring job and in the past I have tended only to sample a few tanks to see if the vendor was providing clean air. In future I will be testing every tank and the EII CO makes this much easier than the other options available. With the greater awareness of the risks of CO to scuba divers I see an increasing market for such an easy to use analyzer.
 
I was very sorry to hear this news. I heard about the notice given dealers a week or two ago, but didn't want to talk about it until it was public.

Sooooo you gonna tell us why?

My guess, CO monitors are a beast to keep in calibration and give frequent false positives.
Not in the least, but I guess you're typing with absolutely no knowledge? How was my guess...?

The personal Analox CO tank tester is the easiest existing to calibrate and unlike some - zero false positives. Outstanding product.

Hello Patti,

As one of the early adopters and as someone who saw my suggestions incorporated into the EII CO, Analox has earned my business. At the same time I fully understand the business decision that Analox needed to make with regards to the EII CO. That said I would hope that Analox will work a third party mfg to produce compatible cells going forward. That would at least let those of use who have the EII CO go well into the future.

Further, I agree with Analox's decision to go after the compressor market. However, as said above those shops that really need such monitoring are probably are not going to be the ones who step up to the plate. What comes to mind is Analog generously donating CO monitors to the fill stations in Cozumel after their fiascos. Here again I applaud Analox and DAN for stepping up to the plate but damn neither should be doing this - that is handling a commercial business free equipment to so assure their product is fit for human consumption.
I was thinking it was DAN America who donated compressor monitors in Mexico, with help from Analox?

I still appreciate Analox and their service to the dive industry & sport, as well as their attempts in this need - so please do not read my thoughts as bashing the company. Sometimes I don't express my thoughts well. This is a failure, but can't blame Analox.

Going after the compressor market is good for the company, but fails the divers. Even after one local Operator in Cozumel provided the main fill station with Analox compressor monitors - even before the DAN donations, the CO problems continued there - apparently because they didn't use the auto shut-off feature, ignored the warnings, and got more tanks filled faster. The CO rates were kept low enough to not become a disaster, but it was still a failure. That Op gave up and got his own compressor. And as grf88 learned with his son's tank, a clean compressor output is no guarantee that one tank on a boat can be toxic.

So while I agree that it's great for Analox to go after the compressor owners, who should want to spend pennies per tank to ensure quality production - that's just is not what happens in the marketplace. Fill station owners should want compressor monitors, and Analox delivers well - but it just doesn't happen much. Divers still need personal CO tank testers as much as ever. The failure goes back to DAN, the agencies, instructors, shops, Operators, and the divers. The whole industry failed because it's bad for business to tell divers they need to spend a few hundred bucks more so they can check tanks which should never be tainted - including DAN's business with DAN America being more & more controlled by the profits of the rest of the industry. Like some auto makers, keep the death & injury losses affordable and they can try to hide their shortcomings in the balance sheets. :mad:

And divers failed, in so many found it more convenient to buy into the big lie of the industry than spend a few hundred. Even those interested in change whined and opposed the fair costs needed, looking for group purchases to keep the prices down, etc. The following figures are hypothetical for illustration only, but say...

The divers wanted to spend under $300, preferably under $200, if they couldn't do it for less than $100. I started that way myself, wishing I could use a $20 home CO alarm, but those aren't even close to our needs. I had to learn more, and open up my tight fisted money flow - more than most divers are willing.

On the other hand, while Analox serves the industry & sport, the company also has financial responsibilities to stockholders and the future of the corporation. They needed to retail the unit for more than $300, more like $400, with admittedly pricey costs to keep the units service thru the years. Analox service is of the best, but that costs too. The more retail prices went up, the fewer the divers bought, so the more retail price had to increase to offset losses in volume, and again fewer bought - a sad circle in the market.


Is CO a common problem in tanks? Nope, but how common does it need to be to kill you? Three expert divers died in Italy this month from CO thanks, four others injured. Only 3% of tanks tested by leading air test labs fail US standards, but would you like to get one of those 3% tanks? :eek: Milder CO hits are still usually accepted as traveler's flu for lack of local tank testing, and CO deaths are still written off as drownings for lack of authority testing - either because they can't, or don't want to hurt local business. No, we don't know how common the problem is because the old ways are still in play to hide the facts, but - some of us are doing our own tests and don't mind exposing the ones we catch. Good to keep personal liability insurance in force as defending yourself can still be expensive even when you're right.

Okay, we still need our own CO tank testers. Where do we get them...?

Not from Pocket CO. Cheap units, tiny & easy to carry, not too hard to use in gallon ziplock bags - but I had more problems with that unit! False positives were common for other atmospheric fumes, calibration was difficult and for me ended in sensor failure after only a year, and zero water resistance when I got the previous one wet.

Analox - the best! Buy it now while you can still find one, and let's hope we can get Analox to continue to provide service beyond their current promises. Or we'll try to find sensor providers elsewhere.

Oxycheck has a good name and a CO tank tester for less than $400. You still need a flow restrictor to test straight off the tank, or 2 gallon ziplocks for bag testing. See https://www.golemgear.com/p-627-oxycheq-expedition-carbon-monoxide-analyzer-w-alarm.aspx

Sensorcon makes the most affordable unit I guess, under $200 including yoke and tubing. I've been playing with the basic unit for over a week now, about the size of a small cell phone, tough, water resistant, reliable - but I don't want to mess with yoke & tubing, or a bag test. Still, and option: Cabon Monoxide Scuba Tank Analyzer

And there are others. While DAN America is sticking its head in the sand, DAN Europe is selling a model with local services over there.

Really, I wish we could convince Analox to not give up. Pay the $400 as it's worth it for the dependability and ease of use. If that fails, I hope we can convince them to continue to service the units already out.

thanks
 
Really, I wish we could convince Analox to not give up. Pay the $400 as it's worth it for the dependability and ease of use. If that fails, I hope we can convince them to continue to service the units already out.

thanks
Another vote for that. Of the 10 people I was diving with at least 4 are potential customers including the owner of my LDS who now had plans on carrying them.

It was a real eye opener for all of us.
 
Another vote for that. Of the 10 people I was diving with at least 4 are potential customers including the owner of my LDS who now had plans on carrying them.

It was a real eye opener for all of us.
I bet it was challenging to get yourself to pay over $300 for yours, but it was worth $400 for sure - especially since it was your son's tank. You live in one of the cleanest provinces in the world for strict tank rules, but you have to travel to see the pretty fishes, corals, etc. :wink:
 
... Not in the least, but I guess you're typing with absolutely no knowledge? How was my guess...?

There are four main types of CO sensors. Only one has no false positives and I'm betting that it isn't the one Analox uses. My response was to Patti and it was from an electronic/electrochemical standpoint, not the simple steps the user follows to get the numbers to match. Analox has to work hard to shield the user from the pitfalls of CO sensing. I have formal degrees in both chemistry and electrical engineering and worked in analytical chemistry and voltammetry so I am slightly better than "absolutely no knowledge". I really hesitate to share this, but you asked.

... The personal Analox CO tank tester is the easiest existing to calibrate and unlike some - zero false positives. Outstanding product.

I still question if they could afford to design for zero false positives, don't know, so I called it a guess. Please reread Patti's generous explanation and you will see why it is being discontinued. It is rare that one gets such an honest answer from industry.
 
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