Altitude, cold water, DCS??

[SMKChef]

I have a newbie question about DCS/I.
Here are the facts:
We live in Salt Lake City, altitude is about 4800 Ft.
We recently finished OW cert.
We went diving at Seabase in Grantsville, which is West of Salt Lake City about 40 miles, 4800 ft. altitude, no altitude change to drive out there.
The water at Seabase was 64 degrees. The water comes from an underground spring that has salinity close to sea water. Air temp mid 50s I think. We wore 5mm full wetsuits with 5mm shorty designed to go over the suit. So core body had 10mm neoprene, 5mm hood, 6mm booties.
Dive buddy works out almost daily either swimming laps or cycle for about 1 hour. He has been doing so for several months. He is also on a diet and has been slowly losing weight. He wore 44 lbs of lead. We own same brand and style wetsuit.

We did three dives.
Dive 1: 25 Ft. BT 26 mins. Swam around to see what was there.
SI: 1:23
Dive 2: 13 Ft. BT 46 mins. Stayed in shallow area to feed fish. Got chilled because we weren’t moving around. Started moving around and felt better.
SI: 2:18
Dive 3: 20 Ft. BT 32 mins. Swam around and spent approx. half time in the 13 ft depth area.
All times were taken off of digital dive watch.
About 12-18 hours after we finished diving my buddy experienced headaches (very persistent), dizziness (sometimes) pain in his joints (had pain in fingers but that is gone), had ringing ears but doesn't anymore, pain in neck (we do that to one another usually), on the Monday after diving very dull ache in his chest (not really painful but uncomfortable), very tired for the first 24 hours after diving. I felt no such symptoms.

Now, after we were home and looking at our dive logs we noticed the first big mistake was NOT doing the deepest dive first. Though, we really spent a very small proportion of our time at the 20 foot level.

Our question is does this sound like DCI to anyone? I Know 4 feet is the minimum depth someone has gotten bent, but is he experiencing decompression sickness/illness? I think it has to do with the fact that the water was cold, and we had never been in such cold water before while diving, that was the first time he wore that much weight (previous to this we only swam in fresh water) and so probably strained muscles trying to drag the weights around. He had trouble keeping the weights on so he was yanking at them to get them adjusted. And could it possibly be arthritis? We are 40 yrs old. And in anyone’s opinion is his diving career over? Please say no. We finally found a sport/hobby we both love. Thanks for the opinions, I think.

 

[jamiei]

i don't personally think its anything to do with decompression illness/sickness. your depths and times seem very reasonable to me. I've kinda felt that way after diving, but i think its more fatique than anything, especially with cold water.

 

[pescador775]

Chef, you are confusing DCS with air embolism. It has been said that emboli can occur during ascents from as little as 3-4 feet. Don't hold breath during ascent. WRT bends, the general rule is that decompression is not needed when diving at depths less than 33 feet SW. However, altitude is a factor and will reduce this depth somewhat but, in this case, should not be a factor in your dive profile at Seabase.

Edit: I probably should add a couple technical details. At 20 feet SW, 4800 feet alt., your equivalent ocean depth should be about 23 feet. However, a sea level calibrated depth gauge would probably read about 5 feet less than your actual depth. If that is how you determined your depth, then the actual depth would have been greater than 20 feet, maybe 25 feet, and the equivalent depth closer to 30 feet. Still, no DCS problem. The 25 foot (observed) dive is closer to the limit, and I didn't see that at first. Still, looks good. I mean, even assuming you used an old dial type bourdon gauge to measure '25 feet', the equivalent altitude adjusted ocean depth would have been only 37 feet.

 

[Dr Deco]

Dear SMKChef:

If this problem had occurred within a few minutes of surfacing, one would be suspecious that this is the result of pulmonary barotrauma and arterial gas embolism. The lengthy interval between surface and the first appearance of symptoms mitigates against this problem.

On the basis of physiology, it does not sound like a gas phase illness to me.

Dr Deco:doctor:
On vacation this week.

 

[SMKChef]

Dr Deco;

Thank you for your reply to my post. I hope this makes my friend DiverDon more comfortable about the situation.

 

[ScubaScott]

that must be some sort of record or something - holy cow......

SS

 

[Diver0001]

SMKChef once bubbled...
I have a newbie question about DCS/I.
Here are the facts:
We live in Salt Lake City, altitude is about 4800 Ft.
We recently finished OW cert.
We went diving at Seabase in Grantsville, which is West of Salt Lake City about 40 miles, 4800 ft. altitude, no altitude change to drive out there.
The water at Seabase was 64 degrees. The water comes from an underground spring that has salinity close to sea water. Air temp mid 50s I think. We wore 5mm full wetsuits with 5mm shorty designed to go over the suit. So core body had 10mm neoprene, 5mm hood, 6mm booties.
Dive buddy works out almost daily either swimming laps or cycle for about 1 hour. He has been doing so for several months. He is also on a diet and has been slowly losing weight. He wore 44 lbs of lead. We own same brand and style wetsuit.

We did three dives.
Dive 1: 25 Ft. BT 26 mins. Swam around to see what was there.
SI: 1:23
Dive 2: 13 Ft. BT 46 mins. Stayed in shallow area to feed fish. Got chilled because we weren’t moving around. Started moving around and felt better.
SI: 2:18
Dive 3: 20 Ft. BT 32 mins. Swam around and spent approx. half time in the 13 ft depth area.
All times were taken off of digital dive watch.
About 12-18 hours after we finished diving my buddy experienced headaches (very persistent), dizziness (sometimes) pain in his joints (had pain in fingers but that is gone), had ringing ears but doesn't anymore, pain in neck (we do that to one another usually), on the Monday after diving very dull ache in his chest (not really painful but uncomfortable), very tired for the first 24 hours after diving. I felt no such symptoms.

Now, after we were home and looking at our dive logs we noticed the first big mistake was NOT doing the deepest dive first. Though, we really spent a very small proportion of our time at the 20 foot level.

Our question is does this sound like DCI to anyone? I Know 4 feet is the minimum depth someone has gotten bent, but is he experiencing decompression sickness/illness? I think it has to do with the fact that the water was cold, and we had never been in such cold water before while diving, that was the first time he wore that much weight (previous to this we only swam in fresh water) and so probably strained muscles trying to drag the weights around. He had trouble keeping the weights on so he was yanking at them to get them adjusted. And could it possibly be arthritis? We are 40 yrs old. And in anyone’s opinion is his diving career over? Please say no. We finally found a sport/hobby we both love. Thanks for the opinions, I think.

I'm not a doctor (let's make that clear) but these symptoms can indicate a lot of things from strain to stress to DCS and more. You made 3 short shallow dives with decent surface intervals, you live at the same elevation as your dive, your exposure protection was sufficient and you dove well within the NDL's. In short you did everything by the book. DCS seems very unlikely.

Here's what I think: Given the amount of lead you said he used and, the short time you spent under water for your depth, and your description of his working-out and weight loss, I have an image of a somewhat out of shape, probably overweight and relatively inexperienced middle aged diver. Is this correct? You also said he isn't used to the cold and was struggling with his weights. If I put this together with my mental image of the man then it makes me think that he was putting a lot of physical effort into the dive. I'd say he was probably holding a lot of tension in his muscles during the dive (natural in the cold) and got stiff from it. I'm making some big assumptions here so if I'm off base please correct me. If that stiffness were in his neck, shoulders and upper body (not uncommon) this could explain the headaches, neck pain and the tight feeling in the chest. Also, putting a lot of effort into the dive would explain the fatigue and his stuggles with his weight belt would explain the pain in his hands. The ringing in his ears may be related or it may result from clearing with too much power (too late). The dizziness may likewise have been related to neck tension or it may have been a result of something (a pressure difference) deep in his ears or water in his ears or suchlike. Finally, with such a heavy weightbelt I would expect some lower back pain that can in some cases radiate into the legs.

If what I wrote sounds about right then I'd suspect the physical strain and not DCS.

I also have a couple of general comments also based on my mental image of his general level of fitness (I'm trying to be objective, not cynical): His workout routine is good if he's trying to lose weight but it's aerobic. It's good for the heart and lungs but it won't help him much in preparing for lifting the heavy dive gear. To make the gear easier to handle he might try weight lifting a couple of times a week (start with light upper body stuff on machines and build up slowly). Also, experience is key to relaxing in the water and the more you dive the easier it gets. I'd personally go calm-on for a while and limit your dive days to two dives for the moment. If you have extra time take a slow snorkle instead of the third dive or go scouting for a new spot to dive the next time. And finally, if my mental image of his condition is accurate, I would build an extra safety margin into the dive profiles. Stay well within the "green" on your computers, for example.

And obviously if he gets symptoms more typical of DCS such as (to give you the tip of the iceberg) bilateral joint pain, red skin rashes, numbness, tingling, dizziness, weakness, extreme fatigue, shortness of breath etc shortly after a dive (most DCS incidents show up within the range 20min to 2 hours) then he should seek immediate medical help.

R..