advanced deep dive in bad sea conditions

[kensuguro]

ya know, I had a story here about a tough dive with assisting an AOW class as DM candidates.. there were situations where I wanted to seek for opinions, but at the same time I'd have had to share some specifics.. I thought that was kind of inappropriate, so I took down the story.. The situation was, 3-4 with occasional 6. Instructor, 5 AOW students, then me and my wife as DM candidates, and another instructor, and AI taking the rear. We were doing a deep dive.. don't really want to get too specific as to which wreck. Don't want to make anyone look bad.

Here's the simplified list:
1. Panic diver on surface that wants to head back to ship. I assisted with an AI, but got separated from my buddy. Should my buddy have come back to me? Should I have gone to my buddy and let the AI handle the situation?

2. Low air. A few minutes into the safety stop, a student was down to 500, and came to me. I checked his gauge, thought it was zero. Immediately got ready to do alt air, checked and saw that he had 500. So I switched to trying to calm him down since 500 should last him quite a while at safety stop depth.

opinions?

 

[PerroneFord]

I'm sure others will have comments, but if a diver came to you with concerns about being low on air.. give him air! In his mind, in his time of need, you went from hero to goat. The idea is to get him back on the BOAT with 500, not let him try to get through deco, fight a choppy sea, and suck his tank try waiting for his turn to get on the ladder.

In my mind, 4-6 foot chop is something an advanced open water diver SHOULD be able to handle. Thats the wild and unpredictable thing about the ocean. It's not always glass out there, and if your going to tempt the ocean, expect to get bit once in a while. My day is coming.. I know it!

I would also expect a DM candidate to be able to control their breathing in a tough situation. You also lost your buddy. Again, maybe it was fine in your scenario, but not what I'd expect from a DM.

Best of luck finishing your class.

BTW, what wreck were you out on?

 

[dbulmer]

Kensuguro,
1) You went to assist a rescue - it sounds that you were unable to communicate this to your buddy. You got seperated - what was in your dive plan with your buddy for dive separation? No one here was there but it sounds as if better communication before during and maybe after the dive could be better?

You lost your buddy and your buddy lost you - keeping in closer contact so that both of you can see what was happening might have aided communication.


2) 500 psi - that's low (as Perrone says be more conservative and be back on the boat with a reserve) and you have a stressed diver - share air - don't let the situation escalate into something bigger - remember while 500 psi might normally be ok for some divers you had a stressed diver to contend with whose sac rate might have been at a rate which would have depleted his gas supply quite quickly. Sharing air would have helped to calm down the other diver making surface control easier.


Thirdly - none of us were there and if you all got out ok then well done.

I'm not rescue trained yet so please take my comments with a pinch of salt ...
although it would be interesting for me too to hear what the experienced divers out there make of the scenario.

 

[dbulmer]

One more point - if the conditions were bad - why dive at all ? Diving is about fun and training should be fun too and I don't think I would have wanted to do the dive in those conditions and one more thing - who put up a DSMB? I do hope in those conditions DSMbs were up? ie let the boat know where the divers are so that if an incident occurs the skipper can help in the rescue.

 

[wreckchick]

3-4' is snotty but not unmanageable, first of all. A panicked diver on the surface is a scenario that everyone has or will experience. It's fine to assist the AI with that diver to get him/her back to the boat safely.

I realize you're saying you lost your buddy, but here's a stark reality for you and everyone who is or plans on working as a divemaster. You're on your own. It sounds horrible and harsh, but when you're with an instructor that has students, or the DM on a boat, you are responsible for you. No one is really looking out for you. That instructor or boat captain is not going to pay a whole lot of attention to what you're doing. You have to make a concerted effort to not get lost or show up late back to the boat. I'm assuming the buddy was your wife and the same applies to her.

Was the low on air diver freaking out or just bringing the 500 psi to your attention? If the diver was upset, you should have donated providing you weren't also getting low. If the student was just alerting you, there's no problem with just hanging out close to that diver and monitoring closely. You SHOULD bring it to the attention of the instructor that the student obviously extended the bottom time and didn't leave a proper reserve for the ascent.

Rachel

 

[Matthew]

I'm sure others will have comments, but if a diver came to you with concerns about being low on air.. give him air! In his mind, in his time of need, you went from hero to goat. The idea is to get him back on the BOAT with 500, not let him try to get through deco, fight a choppy sea, and suck his tank try waiting for his turn to get on the ladder.

As I understand it, the diver was notifying the DM that he had 500 psi but was not asking to share air, nor was there an urgent need. Dont confuse it with an OOA. IMO he did right in staying with the diver, monitoring the air, and trying to get him to relax. In that situation I would opt to finish the safety stop (after a deep dive), but even if they opted to ascend immediately, it would have been more complicated if they did it while sharing air. At that depth even a hoover would take sometime to suck 500 psi dry.

I would also expect a DM candidate to be able to control their breathing in a tough situation. You also lost your buddy. Again, maybe it was fine in your scenario, but not what I'd expect from a DM.

Would you rather that when you need a DM's assistance that he just ignored you so he can stick to his buddy?

 

[Diver0001]

Here's the simplified list:
1. Panic diver on surface that wants to head back to ship. I assisted with an AI, but got separated from my buddy. Should my buddy have come back to me? Should I have gone to my buddy and let the AI handle the situation?

First control the situation then think about the big picture. In a similar situation I would have assisted the AI until he indicated that he had it under control and then I would have returned to my buddy. If you're assisting then your buddy should be briefed on what to do in response to you needing to leave as well.

2. Low air. A few minutes into the safety stop, a student was down to 500, and came to me. I checked his gauge, thought it was zero. Immediately got ready to do alt air, checked and saw that he had 500. So I switched to trying to calm him down since 500 should last him quite a while at safety stop depth.

In this situation I would have read the gauge, given the student a BIG OK sign and then signed "minutes" and "10" to give him/her the idea that 500 psi will last you about 10 minutes at safetystop depth. After that park the student beside you. There is also a disconnect here in that we tell students to abort the dive with 500 psi and then tell them to finish the safetystop. If you have the impressoin that it's not clear then you should tell the instructor so he can de-brief it properly.

R..

 

[pipedope]

Some details are missing.

Was this the first deep dive AND the first dive in rough (ish) water?
It is a better idea to add only one level of difficulty at a time.

It sounds like the dive was not well breifed especially for the DMs. The instructor in charge should have planned before hand what you should do in case of a problem. If your buddy was the other DM then they would most likely stay with the group of students. If not then they probably should have been with you, to reinforce the team concept if nothing else.

I think far too many people are FAR too dogmatic about the 'back on the boat with 500' rule. The rule should be for a planned dive done to plan. On a dive abort for any real reason you should use the gas as needed to safely get to the surface. If that means climbing the ladder with 50 psi then so be it. I would hate to see someone bent or with AGE because they rushed up and skipped a safety stop to get on deck with 500.

The whole thing should also be discussed with the AI and instructor so you can learn how to do better in the future, they will likely learn something too.

 

[Whatgoesdown]

The conditions don't sound horrendous and waves on the surface can be a good reason to go deep in order to avoid the surge. You did the right thing in assisting with the panicked diver but once they were close to the boat the skipper and AI should be able to handle it.

Handing an alternate to a diver first is the right thing to do. Once you have ascertained that they have 500psi you know you have a bit of leeway. Personally, I would ascend with the diver to safety stop level and if we can hold steady at that depth keep them on the alternate. The reason is that it should be significantly calmer at depth. Should you be unable to easily hold onto them at stop level the 500psi should get through the stop if they have calmed down a bit. Final ascent to the surface should be on their own reg which, under those conditions, should stay in their mouth until back on the boat. If it was a planned deep dive, especially with students, there should have been a hang tank or hookah reg. As Pipedope says, better to have them breathe the 500 and carry out the stop than blow through, it shouldn't be in your plan but it is breathable air that we set aside for such eventualities.

Not knowing all the details it is a good one to discuss with the instructor. Next time you'll all be better prepared.

 

[kensuguro]

ya, it's one of those situations where it was a bit more than a mouthful for me, as it was my first dive as DM candidate.. I'm going to go over the details with the instructor today. Thank you all for very informative views. I think there are several ways to handle the situations, and it's good to hear them from different people so I can have a broader choice to choose from.