2011 the year camcorders died?

[baitballer]

I have just spent a few days in Miami shopping (I live in the Caribbean) and I failed dismally to buy one of the new Canon HF G10 or AX10's. No one stocks them and when I ask why I am told everyone uses DSLR's to shoot HD video now so there is no demand. They stock the lower end cameras all below $500 but no high end ones.

I read in HD Video Pro magazine and I quote "Canon sold more EOS 5D Mark II's in a week than every camcorder combined in a year".

I chatted to someone at an underwater camera/video store who said the same, Videographers are a dying breed just get a DSLR (Which I already have for stills) and use that for HD video.

I wonder what is going to happen to the housing manufactures such as Light & Motion etc if this is the case. Is this why Amphibico went under? Are people simply not buying camcorders anymore? Are they going the same way as DVD's, CD's and books are, left behind to a small specialist market that becomes un-economical?

I much prefer to use a camcorder as oppossed to my DSLR and I was going to buy both a new camera and housing but maybe I need to re think and look at getting a housing for my DSLR instead.

 

[vjanelle]

L&M's housing doesn't work with the 2011 cameras(I think, something about not supporting the remote control capabilities?). DSLR video is certainly exciting though. It's a secondary feature for my next purchase consideration, but the lights.. Ow!

The main issue with DSLR video is AF. That can be hit or miss. They make really expensive focusing rings lenses for this now, but...

 

[sinistar]

I read in HD Video Pro magazine and I quote "Canon sold more EOS 5D Mark II's in a week than every camcorder combined in a year".

That one is hard to believe, do you think they were just talking about high end camcorders?

I own a 5D2 but I haven't purchased a housing yet. One irony, you mentioned what will happen to Light & Motion. I currently own a Blufin for a HC1. I love their products. But (and unless I've missed something) they no longer make DSLR housings. I wonder if they will get back into DSLR housings again.

If there really is this large of a shift, I hope canon will start adding a one-touch white balance (via a single button push) to their DSLR lineup. Heck, they should add it even if it's not going into a housing.

Oh yeah, the other major push seems to be the GoPro approach. When a person just wants to get underwater video, this is such a low price to get going that it's hard to justify spending the extra $$$ on a standard camcorder + industrial housing.

 

[baitballer]

The quote is from a canon rep' so that would be Canon camcorders only, but it is still an amazing number difference.

 

[sharksdelight]

I've been a shooter and editor now since 88 and am happy that I have achieved a great deal of success in my filming endeavors. I, however, recently moved to a DSLR and it is not the easiest transition to make. The entire shooting workflow and ergonomics are considerably different so, for me, it has been going back to beginner status in many ways. Yes, my prediction is that all photographic cameras will be able to produce video of varying qualities, however I do not think that DSLRs will replace professional camcorders at all. Beginners who start with GoPros and the like will not find the quality of the footage to be serviceable for more than B roll type shots and the audio is completely unusable for someone who has high standards. This applies to DSLRs which have some of the poorest audio around. Real camcorders have XLR inputs for using quality mics. With a DSLR you then need something like the Zoom H4n for audio which then needs to be synced to the video using software like Plural Eyes. Usually, when I am asked to serve as a judge for national and international video competitions, it is poor audio that gets a film dropped from consideration before most anything else. Underwater filming still requires some topside work in order to make for a cohesive and engaging storyline and that's where too many new shooters forget about the importance of audio quality. Music videos are just that and I don't often see too many quality music videos of underwater life. Usually they are just moving snapshots with a music background, often with the music levels set to go into distortion. Watch those peak meters folks.
Steve

 

[Geekhybrid]

I don't think they're dead. Just camcorder manufacturers missed the boat in many respects and haven't listened to what consumers have been asking for for years. The camcorder market has been under a double pronged attack of smart phones and video-capable DSLRs that has pretty much killed the current crop of consumer and "pro-sumer" camcorders. On the low end, if you want to shoot a 30 second video of your kid doing something cute you are going to go for the convenience and "good enough" features of your smartphone, which is likely already on your person. On the higher end, you're probably a bit more dedicated, looking for control and "cinematic" capabilities. Likely the non-fixed lens, much larger and more light sensitive sensor, progressive--and/or variable--frame rates, and quite possibly lower cost for like features compared to a video camera make a DSLR with video very attractive. That pretty much cannibalizes the lower end consumer/pro-sumer video camera market.

As a point of comparison, in the pro TV market, the penetration of DSLRs is because they are cheap, and that's about it. Where cost is a deciding factor--ie. is there a chance that this camera will get destroyed? do I have to mount it on a moving car? must I take a redundant camera to a location 3,000 miles away? Could I take a third camera and hand it off to a producer or third unit to get some shots?--a DSLR is a good choice. But if given the choice between a DSLR and a state-of-the-art pro camcorder just about any professional shooter will be choosing the pro video camera. That's because most pro cameras already have most of what a pro-sumer is craving: non-fixed lenses, variable frame rate, large image sensor, higher light sensitivity, etc.. If all capabilities were equal, the pro video camera is more ergonomically suited to shooting video. That's not just a question of comfort for a shooter who is spending a 10 hour day shooting. It is crucial when it comes to critical things like focus or sensor scan issues. It's quite often that an otherwise useable shot in a production is rendered unusable with dodgy focus. Pro video cameras tend to be a lot more "bulletproof" and "foolproof".

The reason that the pro-sumer market has been eaten alive by the DSLR is that it delivers all the things that a large and dedicated market of video-makers has been asking for for years at a very attractive price. This is a market that has always been willing to put up with workaround and DIY solutions to get the maxim aesthetic and creative effect. Putting up with the inconvenience of a rig made for shooting stills is relatively minor.--and indie film makers will go to some amazing lenghts to compensate. But since it's not the best tool ergonomically for the job, given time I expect to see more competitive offerings in the pro-sumer video camera market. While ultimately Canon makes the same dollar whether you buy a DSLR or a video camera, you can be sure the SLR division and the consumer camera division don't see it that way.

Soon I expect a new generation of camcorders that reply to the advances and feature set of the video enabled DSLR.

 

[sharksdelight]

Completely agree with you. In terms of TV shows, especially reality shows like 'The Deadliest Catch', they are using Sony A1-U's, HC-1, FX-1 and GoPros and they trash many of them because they are relatively inexpensive. Trashing a Red 1 would be a bit cost prohibitive for a long shoot like that.
Steve

 

[Geekhybrid]

It's inevitable for a show like Deadliest catch that cameras are going to be destroyed. But I would think even if that wasn't the case, size, simplicity and ruggedness would have as more to do with choice than anything else. If I recall correctly they were using Sony Z7Us, which are great cameras from an operator's perspective. And at about $5K a unit, that's pretty much disposable. The prospect of running around on a pitching deck on a stormy day with a RED One MX is not appealing, not to mention unnecessary. Likewise, doing it with a 5Dii, or a 7D, with all the workarounds necessary to focus, meter, expose, monitor, etc., all the while being situationally aware in that environment... For that show, I'd say a DSLR is out of the question.