DIR- Generic 1st Stage Hitting Back of Head

[Kirgan]

Hi all,

My wife got a new BP & Wing, so I readjusted her old Eclipse for my use. My Eclipse was starting to show some signs of wear and tear. Fit felt the same as mine after my adjustments.

I went diving with it and every once in a while if I leaned my head back, I would hit the back of my head on the first stage. After the dive, I remembered I used to have this problem with my original Eclipse as well. There was no way for me to lower the tank any more, because that would have put the upper cam band totally off the tank - it was already as high as it could go.

I solved this problem originally by finding a new STA online that had 3 slots (top, bottom and middle) for cam bands - where the STA on the Eclipse only had 2 (top and bottom) and the top was to high for me. Turns out with the new STA, I didn't even need to use the middle slot, because the STA was a little shorter and the top cam slot was already a bit lower than than on my original STA.

I originally bought two of those 3 slot STAs. So, I put the other one on the Eclipse that I repurposed for my use and that solved the problem again.

I post this for two reason.

1) I am curious has anyone else had this problem?

2) If somebody else has, I just wanted to let you know how I solved the issue. BTW, I bought the STA from UTD - not sure if they still carry it. A picture of it is attached.

--Mike

 

[PfcAJ]

There’s a tendency for people to wear their backplate too high. Loosen the shoulders and tighten the crotch strap.

 

[tbone1004]

There’s a tendency for people to wear their backplate too high. Loosen the shoulders and tighten the crotch strap.

often combined with bp/w too low on the tank.

I teach students to adjust it one of two ways. First is if the cam band is in the same general location as the top bolt of the doubles mount, then put the top cam band right below the crown. Validate by holding the shoulder straps up and the crease when they come back down should be about level with the valve outlet

@Kirgan with that STA, you should be around the same height as where the top band of a doubles set would live, so put the band right below the crown of the tank. Once that is sorted, follow AJ's advise on loosening the shoulders.

 

[Kirgan]

Thanks @PfcAJ & @tbone1004 . I will give your suggestions a try. If they work, it seems I didn't need those other STA's to fix the problem after all.

You know I wonder if this is also the cause of another problem I had with this newly setup BP/Wing setup. The other problem I had was that on the surface it kept wanting to tilt me face forward into the water. I thought maybe it was because the BP and Wing raised to high out of the water on the surface, because maybe my crotch strap was to loose initially to stop it from rising up higher on my back when getting lift from air inside it, so I took out the slack - but on my second dive, it still happened on the surface again. I doubled checked my wing to make sure I wasn't overfilling it at the surface and I wasn't. I also wear no other weights right now - other than the weight of the Steel BP due to only wearing a 1 mil. I don't even need that during the summer here, but I still want pockets, and to have some protection against the possibility of jelly stings and protection from abrasion of the shoulder straps. In the winter I will wear a thicker wetsuit and as a result I need to add a little weight to my trim pockets on my cam straps, but right now I am not wearing any extra weight - so there is definitely no weight in front of me that is tilting me forward.

Now with what you guys just suggested for solving the original issue in this thread, I wonder if making those adjustments will fix this problem too, since as you stated - it will lower the BP & Wing. Meaning maybe the reason why taking up the slack in the crotch strap didn't work was because the BP & Wing was already to high to begin with and I really needed to get it lower first and then tight the crotch strap. I will let you know if it solves this issue too. Weather permitting, I plan to go out diving again this weekend.

Thanks,

--Mike

 

[EireDiver606]

I think humans have evolved to have a small indent at the back of their head, and us as divers know that it came from the evolution of us diving with our heads rested against the regulators...

 

[Ayisha]

1) I am curious has anyone else had this problem?

Yes, I had this problem with my Eclipse. Originally my first stage was pushing my mask strap off my head. I lowered the bp as much as possible and re-tightened the crotch strap, but the Eclipse wing is so long, it was still sitting right behind my head, and also pushed my mask strap off. A friend of mine made holes for me as low as possible on the bp and as high as possible on the wing (not much room to move though), and voila, that pretty much solved the problem. The wing attaches a little lower on the bp now, so it probably goes to the top of my shoulders/neck - much better. The straps are lengthened, the bp sits over my bum, and the crotch strap is tight, so it stays in place and doesn't ride up, and is as low as it can be.

What a great idea to use a 3 slot STA. That could have helped with my issue, but I guess the wing would still be sitting too high.
Well, the real issue is that it's hard to be short.

 

[tbone1004]

@Kirgan tipping forward at the surface is usually a combo of the whole plate riding too high on the body. Generally a combo of loose crotch and waist straps. Lowering the tank a bit will certainly help, but assuming the harness is adjusted properly, there is a way to "sit" with a bp/w when at the surface and you won't tip forward. The biggest key to this is to keep your knees bent and ideally act like your leaning against a bar stool. Thighs will be bent about 45* below the horizon, and your calves will be about 90* to your thighs. This also allows you all sorts of rotational mobility in the water. Near instant and near zero effort turning up to 180*, but also gives you stability in the water.

 

[Kirgan]

@Kirgan tipping forward at the surface is usually a combo of the whole plate riding too high on the body. Generally a combo of loose crotch and waist straps. Lowering the tank a bit will certainly help, but assuming the harness is adjusted properly, there is a way to "sit" with a bp/w when at the surface and you won't tip forward.

@tbone1004 well with my new STA giving me the ability to lower my tank more and adjusting one shoulder strap, I no longer tip forward on the surface and I am no longer getting hit in the back of the head by the first stage.

As for the shoulder strap adjustment, basically my left shoulder strap was tighter across my chest than my right, which seemed to be forcing the BP & Wing to be up higher on my back. I loosed it up and pulled the left strap out so it matched the same distance out from the backplate as my right shoulder strap. That lowered the BP and now I don't tip forward at the surface. I was surprised that such a small adjustment made the difference, but it did. If you grab both straps and pull them out, like you were about to pick up the BP of the ground by the straps, the center of the left shoulder strap was originally only about 2-3 inches shorter on its distance from the BP than the center of the right strap - now they are the same distance. Not sure why I never noticed they were not the same length before.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[EireDiver606]

@Kirgan tipping forward at the surface is usually a combo of the whole plate riding too high on the body. Generally a combo of loose crotch and waist straps. Lowering the tank a bit will certainly help, but assuming the harness is adjusted properly, there is a way to "sit" with a bp/w when at the surface and you won't tip forward. The biggest key to this is to keep your knees bent and ideally act like your leaning against a bar stool. Thighs will be bent about 45* below the horizon, and your calves will be about 90* to your thighs. This also allows you all sorts of rotational mobility in the water. Near instant and near zero effort turning up to 180*, but also gives you stability in the water.

Exactly what my GUE instructor was like. Looks so stable and comfortable while we did our pre dive checks

 

[EireDiver606]

I tried to do the bent knees thing but kept getting off balance. Even though I would consider myself having a balanced rig? Maybe it’s harder with singles because it has a smaller surface area?