150ft for sport KISS

[wubbels]

Does anyone know why the new sport KISS is 'only' rated at 150ft (this is 50m ?).
(or is this for legal purposes, due to comming CE certification for the unit?)
I was looking for a small RB, at about 2-3h divetime, and around 55-60m depth.
(around 40-45m with nitrox, range 35-60m with trimix or heliox).
Does this mean that the Sport KISS is not suitable for full-trimix diving?
Anyone practical experience with diving this unit only in shallow depths (less 10m or 20m), or for non square-profile dives (fe. reef dives, shore dives, ...) (difficulty for deco calculations).
Any advice for the SS - alu covers. We are mainly diving coldwater (Northsea/Oosterschelde) wetsuits (7mm) and drysuits, is it better to choose the 'extra' weight of SS cover?
(I'm mainly interested in keeping the overall weight as low as possible, in case of taking the unit for holiday diving trips)

 

[caveseeker7]

Does anyone know why the new sport KISS is 'only' rated at 150ft (this is 50m ?).

It's the Sport Kiss, not the Tek Kiss.
It was specifically designed and build with the recreational dive profiles in mind.

The scrubber is quite small and has an unusual design that may well exhaust quicker once exhaustion sets in (which is usually already a fairly short process - once scubbing capacity goes, it's goes fast).

Also consider that the Classic Kiss is "only" rated to 250 ft. rather than the 328 ft the APD breathers are rated.

For CE certification the scrubber will be tested to protocol, and might well be re-rated accordingly.

I was looking for a small RB, at about 2-3h divetime, and around 55-60m depth.
(around 40-45m with nitrox, range 35-60m with trimix or heliox).

Tough call. The APD Evolution does the depth, but not the time. Haven't seen any official ratings on the MiniMeg, you might want to contact ISC. The Prism gives you almost twice the time and the depth while being a bit smaller than say the Inspiration, and quite a bit lighter, but its not a "small" rebreather.

As depth (ambient pressure) is one of the factors of scrubber duration, and scrubber size (amount of sorb) another, you'll have a hard time finding a rebreather that has both a small scrubber and allows the time and depths your looking for.

Does this mean that the Sport KISS is not suitable for full-trimix diving?

It isn't inteneded for it, and from what I know Jetsam rather not support that sort of diving, at least not on the Sport Kiss.

They did anounce a larger scrubber (6.5 lbs rather than the stock 5 lbs) which may changes the depth rating and likely change the capability to dive deep safely.

Anyone practical experience with diving this unit only in shallow depths (less 10m or 20m), or for non square-profile dives (fe. reef dives, shore dives, ...) (difficulty for deco calculations).
Any advice for the SS - alu covers.

You'll be hard pressed to get much feedback yet.
The first batch of units have just gotten into the hands of divers, and many had to get certified first. Furthermore, Kim and Gordon were just on a PNG & Australia Trip to introduce the SportKiss down under.

Give it a few weeks to get some feedback, I'm sure it'll come soon.

I don't understand you "difficult deco" question. Just keep the setpoint reasonably stable and calculate on the conservative side with tables.

As for the ss/alu box, depends on your primary use as well as the weight limits of the places you'll visit. I'm taking a wild guess, but you should be able to order both housings if need be. Dive the North Sea with one, the Red Sea or tropics with the other ... .

 

[nitrojunkie]

I believe the Mini Meg is 2 hours in cold water and longer in warm destinations 2.5 maybe 3???, I don't remember how it was tested. The Meg offers extensive possibilities by simply adding a larger scrubber and canister one can be pretty well be outfitted for anything... I think it has also shown it's chops at depth. Getting one might be a different story... probably as long as my &*%$ing Evolution.

Classic KISS seems to travel pretty well if you can get cylinders at your destination. The KISS users site shows just about every imaginable cylinder configuration, some look more awkward than others, but a pair of 40's and you could probably dive for a full week with out having to refill them.

Doug

 

[wubbels]

Waw, thanks ... fast answering.

I'm a Sport diver, not a Tek Diver. I was asking for the depth limit more as an 'extra' margin of safety, I did not want to push it to the limit. If it does 50m/150ft without problems it would fine for me.

The 2,5h scrubber rating is also fine (if this is safe in coldwater), it would be actually 2 dives of 1h up to max. 1h30 each in my case.

I'm shure minimeg, evolution, prism, ... are very nice machines but they are way out of budget for me, difficult for training here (Europe) and more important: I like my things as simple as possible (as I am myself), so for me a Kiss would do fine (I hope).

You mention an other point I didn't think about before, do I need special Sport Kiss certification (haven't seen yet) or is Classic Kiss training (IANTD) the way to go?

Thanks again, hoping for some (possitive) feedback from lucky first batch-users.

Is diving tables a (the) safe way to dive a kiss ? Or is back-up/main computer adviced ?

 

[Scubaroo]

Your question on tables versus computers has recently been asked on TheDecoStop. There's also several very active threads this week on DiveOz where Gordon Smith just returned from doing a mini roadshow on the Sport KISS, that discuss scrubber duration.

 

[Henry]

KISS is not CE approved. The following is taken directly from their website:

"This rebreather has NOT been tested by the US Navy, DCIEM or any other organization, it is NOT CE approved and the only guarantee that it comes with is that it is absolutely capable of killing you"

FYI
Henry

It's the Sport Kiss, not the Tek Kiss.
It was specifically designed and build with the recreational dive profiles in mind.

The scrubber is quite small and has an unusual design that may well exhaust quicker once exhaustion sets in (which is usually already a fairly short process - once scubbing capacity goes, it's goes fast).

Also consider that the Classic Kiss is "only" rated to 250 ft. rather than the 328 ft the APD breathers are rated.

For CE certification the scrubber will be tested to protocol, and might well be re-rated accordingly.


Tough call. The APD Evolution does the depth, but not the time. Haven't seen any official ratings on the MiniMeg, you might want to contact ISC. The Prism gives you almost twice the time and the depth while being a bit smaller than say the Inspiration, and quite a bit lighter, but its not a "small" rebreather.

As depth (ambient pressure) is one of the factors of scrubber duration, and scrubber size (amount of sorb) another, you'll have a hard time finding a rebreather that has both a small scrubber and allows the time and depths your looking for.


It isn't inteneded for it, and from what I know Jetsam rather not support that sort of diving, at least not on the Sport Kiss.

They did anounce a larger scrubber (6.5 lbs rather than the stock 5 lbs) which may changes the depth rating and likely change the capability to dive deep safely.


You'll be hard pressed to get much feedback yet.
The first batch of units have just gotten into the hands of divers, and many had to get certified first. Furthermore, Kim and Gordon were just on a PNG & Australia Trip to introduce the SportKiss down under.

Give it a few weeks to get some feedback, I'm sure it'll come soon.

I don't understand you "difficult deco" question. Just keep the setpoint reasonably stable and calculate on the conservative side with tables.

As for the ss/alu box, depends on your primary use as well as the weight limits of the places you'll visit. I'm taking a wild guess, but you should be able to order both housings if need be. Dive the North Sea with one, the Red Sea or tropics with the other ... .

 

[Scubaroo]

KISS is not CE approved.

I don't think anyone is saying that it currently is, but CE certification is going to be sought for the Sport KISS unit (which is a different beast to the Classic KISS unit).

 

[caveseeker7]

KISS is not CE approved.

That's correct, Henry, which is the reason I wrote

For CE certification the scrubber will be tested to protocol ...

rather than has been tested ... .

Stefan

 

[Henry]

Perfect. It just seemed that it could have been easily misunderstood that KISS is CE. I almost did until I recalled reading that little blurb (because it was funny).

Thanks
Henry

That's correct, Henry, which is the reason I wrote

rather than has been tested ... .

Stefan

 

[caveseeker7]

Perfect. It just seemed that it could have been easily misunderstood that KISS is CE.

Not yet. But when I saw Gordon and Kim again at DEMA and photographed the Sport Kiss he told me that CE certification is pretty high on their agenda.

Even without it the Classic Kiss sold very well in Europe, better in fact than anywhere else. If you look on their website, there is a whole passel of instructors over there. Non of which they expected in the first place.

Another issue is of course the one of liability. The CE certification will offer good protection in that regard in Europe, and will likely go quite some way in the US.

The Classic Kiss' design won't be able to pass CE testing, aside from being very time intensive to manufacture (machining).
The Sport Liss was designed from the beginning taking most of the CE hurdles into consideration. WOB is by all accounts better than on the Classic due to the unusual scrubber design and larger diameter openings. The additional, small o-t-s counterlung attachments should make it possible for the unit to pass hydrostatic loading tests. That's something that Dolphin and Azimuth SCRs probably never had to pass under the grandfather clause.

Setpoint control should be an issue as there is no electronic setpoint controller ... I wonder if they have to argue that.

Same with the lack of alarms. Except for the O2 monitor there are no electronics hence no alarms. If need be an alarm could be fairly easily added to the handset, I guess. The display is supposedly due for an update anyway.

Personally I'm looking forward to CE certification, as it will offer some testing data (either actual or 'passed') as well as solid ratings for duration. But considering their usual diving grounds, I doubt it will be off by much if at all.