1.5v AA Lithium Ion battery use in strobes?

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fmerkel

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There is a new generation of li-on AA like Tenavolt AA or Kentili AA (review). These appear to support voltage firmly at 1.5v until exhausted then just plummet. This is at the expense of capacity, and maybe of amp support.

Any one have any real world use with these?

I'm wondering if strobes might cycle faster and still have sufficient capacity for a single dive. Issues might be heat production (possibly more because of the electronics to pull down the voltage), inadequate amp support; the Kentli seems to crap out much past 1.5A. White Eneloops can do better. I don't know what something like a D2 or Z330 pulls at peak. It would need sufficient capacity for a single dive (say 150 flashes). I don't think they'd work well in situations where they had to support 2+ dives in a row. The actual li-on cell inside is pretty small.
 
These look to be around 30% more expensive than Eneloop Pro cells that most strobes using AA cells recommend. Looking at the specs from the Inon Z330's I use, there seem to be pros and cons. Recycle time is much slower with the Lithiums, but # flashes is more. I'd still go with Eneloops because I can easily take 400 shots (1/2 power) and recycle time is more of a limiting factor to me. Eneloops seems more than adequate.

These cells may act differently than the 1.5v lithiums used in Inon's benchmark, but it is at least a hint.


Battery type / Flash Specs:
INON Z-330 Strobe [Spec]
 
Thanks for that spec sheet. I find it interesting that a smaller capacity 1.5v lithium would cycle.....slower....but, be capable of more cycles. Does not make sense to me. I wonder what they actually used to determine this?

One of the issues I've found over time is the Eneloop Pros, though they have a higher capacity, suffer from a more rapidly degrading internal resistance. After awhile they don't work quite as well as the good old white Eneloops which hold up better for the long haul.
 
They're not common, but nickel-zinc rechargeable AA cells are out there too. They are rated 1.6 volts, higher than Eneloop and all the NiMh cells. Apparently they cannot be recharged as much as NiMh cells can be, but they are supposed to be able to put out lots of power, at the nice higher voltage.

And of course, there are no problems with shipping or carrying them--as there are with lithium.

https://smile.amazon.com/s?k=nickel...refix=nickel+zinc,aps,387&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_2_11

Another option that can be worth trying.
 
Thanks for that spec sheet. I find it interesting that a smaller capacity 1.5v lithium would cycle.....slower....but, be capable of more cycles. Does not make sense to me. I wonder what they actually used to determine this?

One of the issues I've found over time is the Eneloop Pros, though they have a higher capacity, suffer from a more rapidly degrading internal resistance. After awhile they don't work quite as well as the good old white Eneloops which hold up better for the long haul.

it is not surprising as to charge a capacitor you actually need current and NiMh drive higher current out

So even if the total capacity is higher for the Li Ion the relatively low current means higher cycle time

This is the reason nobody really uses LiIon battery pack. Even high power strobes use custom NiMh packs and not LiIon that are generally for cameras drawing small currents
 
I have some NiZn. They do work when new but it's either an unstable chemistry or is not mature. The capacity is lower compared to NiMh, and they degrade badly if over discharged.

The AA Li-on in question is actually a very small pack, inside a AA can, with a driver that reduces the current down to 1.5v. There are a lot of compromises to get that stable 1.5v.

An unregulated Li-on cell (18650) is capable of current that puts NiMh to shame. Some of them can do a fairly stable 20A, and even the super high capacity/lower amp output cells (Panasonic 3500) can do 3-5A without a problem. Ikelite did use Li-on for awhile in some of their strobes. Performance is good but there are other issues, heat and longevity in the tropics being a big one, especially with people that did not know how to take care of them. They need different care than NiMh pack, and people are often pretty poor at taking care of those.

My last tropical trip I felt like I should have done a battery seminar so many people came to me with bad battery performance in their strobes problems, almost all of them being beat to death old Energizer NiMh or similar.
 
All of these will cause harm to strobes and are specifically noted as invalidating your warranties - Inon, S&S, etc. Only use alkaline or nimh batteries.
 
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All of these will cause harm to strobes and are specifically noted as invalidating your warranties - Inon, S&S, etc. Only use alkaline or nimh batteries.

You can use disposable Lithium AA cells but you are looking at charge times of 4-5 seconds for a full blast I have seen them used by macro shooters because you can get 500 shots at minimum power
Totally useless for wide angle where you blast more power nobody wants to wait 5 seconds
 
You can't use any lithium in S&S. Inon seems to allow the non-rechargeable ones. I think they are not very environmentally correct however.

Some older strobes can use the NiOx, but why?

This is from S&S's website.

ss-faq-battery-type-strobe.jpg
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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