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In an effort to try to focus this thread and prevent a world wide shortage in popcorn ... here are my thoughts on what we should be looking at discussing: 1) Decision making on the part of the DM/Dive Op - Is there anybody going to claim that this was an acceptable dive site to take newer...

I won't call you an arse - I'll say that you are uneducated and possibly on the lazy side since if you were truely interested in understanding how to prevent this from reoccuring you would read the entire thread. If you pay attention you can see how the OP has evolved in her posts. There is no...

I think this is uncalled for - based on the first part of this thread, I'm thinking the OP has been through a very stressful situation and posts like this do nothing to help us learn from this tragedy. Its up to you - but I would like to see it removed.

I too look out for new divers and other divers as well - if I see an issue developing then I try to assist where I can. That said - you said that the buddy system is symbiotic relationship - that means it is equal parts. So if the DM was the deceased buddy then the deceased was the DM's...

Have you ever tried to keep a group together at the same depth? Perhaps a solution is that we all have to hang on to a rope (or maybe clip it off with a padlock) so that you can't wonder off. In February I was in Curacao - the DM used a mob approach and we buddied up on our own. The group I...

This really stung - if I was one of the people that came off to you like this then please understand that this was not my intent. I take my teaching very seriously and I spend a lot of time reading how more experienced instructors do things and handle situations so that I am better prepared...

Ken from Ken's dive locker in London. I go out with him 3-4 times a year to this wreck. If you haven't been there yet - you are in for a treat.

I agree with the statement that a student has to understand that this an OW course is the beginning of their dive education. That said they also have to understand their responsibilities and have correct expectations. My question revolves around what is the best approach to impress this to...

I don't think there is finger pointing going on with regards to the orignal instructor. There are questions being asked wether and if so, how strenuously (sp?) the risks of exceeding the limits of the training was. Seeing as you are from the same LDS - are you familar with the instructor in...

I'm curious about the following hypothetical scenerio. If the OP (or another member of the group) had been a pro of some sort (has the cert but is just along for the dive) ... should they also be responsible for this outcome? I'm thinking no, since there was no exchange of value for service, so...

I agree - I doubt that the guide in question wasn't at least a DM and most likely an OWI (or higher). One of the roles a DM can perform is to lead certified divers on OW dives and thus act as a guide. If the dive op gave false expectations to the deceased about the level of supervision then they...

Pilot Fish, you have offered some excellent insight to this thread and for that I thank you but I disagree with your suggestion that 99% of the blame should be shouldered EITHER by the DM (sorry - I don't buy the DG argument) OR the dive operator. As others have suggested the diver in question...

After spending the last two days reading this entire thread I wanted to give my thoughts on what I learned from this thread and this incident. 1) As an instructor I have to do a better job at instilling to OW students they are ultimately responsible for their own actions. I already have a...

On your website - e-learning is $109.95 + $199 (course fees) + $150 (open water) = $458.95 plus gear (you said $85) = $543.95. And this is before the rest of the gear that you either buy or rent to enjoy your new hobby. I'm sorry but it doesn't compare to something like baseball and it is been...

Ken (offthewall1), From the couple of PM's and also looking at your webpage, I have no doubt that you are passionate for growing the number of divers and to get them hooked on the sport. We definitely have this in common. However, I'm not convinced that your solution is the right one for...

Ken (offthewall1), I agree with you 100% that it is wrong for special deals that are off of the tiered structure to be occuring - so far we haven't heard from any other manufacturer's then mdb on if this occurs or not. I have no knowledge if it does occur, I assume you do and are not just...

Sorry for the delay in replying - I was out diving yesterday. I see you have made some assumptions in concluding that my spelling was not a mistake. I appreciate the point and I consider it something that I have now learned. However, besides your obvious assumptions that it wasn't a...

In the General Standards & Procedures of the PADI instructor manual there is a section concerning referals in general and which courses you can issue them for. There is a section in bold (so a standard), that states " Do not withhold a referral as a means of settling personal disputes". This is...

Jon - a couple of questions for you: 1) You mention that MARP was illegal up until 2007 unless the item was protected by patent. Correct me if I'm mistaken but isn't SP and AL gear protected by patents? And if so then isn't your point mute? 2) I'm not overly familar with the "rule of...

Not disagreeing that dive shops need to find a new business model. Some of the stories that I have read on SB make me shudder and realize how lucky I am to have a good LDS nearby. However, I question why the new model has to be based on low margin and high volume. I struggle with the idea that...