Why are BP/W users more common on this board than at the beach?

[OE2X]

I have to agree with Lamont and Bob's sentiments. I spent a long time diving jacket style, before going to back inflate, then to a BP&W. I even have a couple of PADI certs.

Many of us have experience diving with all sorts of different gear and have generally gone down the long road of experience before finally settling on a BP&W. When someone askes then I'm more than happy to talk about the comparitive virtues of using a BP&W. When someone who has never tried one gets on a soapbox condemning their usage and my experience - then I also will answer.

I could care less what your configuration is. Poodle jacket to BPW - the gear doesn't make the diver. It may make it more enjoyable for the diver, but going out and just spending $10,000 grand on tech gear aint going to make you a cave or wreck diver.
I dive with plenty of people that look like a walking dive shop in the parking lot, yet underwater they perform beautifully.

Bottom line for me diving with anyone there are a few rules that I hold them to.
1. Good buddy awareness at all times.
2. Don't rototil the bottom.
3. Decent buoyancy.
4. Don't be destructive to what we are looking at underwater.
5. Plan the dive and dive the plan.
6. Be responsible for watching you own gas.

If someone breaks these rules, but says to me that they want to learn how to get better then great. If they don't - I likely won't bring it to their attention and I probably won't dive with them again.

If this attitude makes me an activist - so be it.

 

[Moogyboy]

Have you really experinced anything like this in RL?

IRL, no...hardly anyone I know dives bpw's. On SB, yes.

Most people could care less what other people dive.

Which is exactly what I'm getting at...that's how it should be and I hope it really is IRL. But we were talking about the (rather vocal) bpw fans on SB. I honestly don't care either way. I use a jacket because that's what I have and it suits the kind of diving I do. I won't knock bpw fans for using whatever kind of gear they want, if their diving warrants it. I'm primarily responding to what I see as a kind of elitism among the bpw users that tends to dominate any talk about BCs on the forum, and people who dive jackets get automatically steered toward bpws regardless of what the person really wants/needs. I'm sorry if I'm way off base with this...just expressing my take on it.

cheers

Billy S.

 

[OE2X]

IRL, no...hardly anyone I know dives bpw's. On SB, yes.




Which is exactly what I'm getting at...that's how it should be and I hope it really is IRL. But we were talking about the (rather vocal) bpw fans on SB. I honestly don't care either way. I use a jacket because that's what I have and it suits the kind of diving I do. I won't knock bpw fans for using whatever kind of gear they want, if their diving warrants it. I'm primarily responding to what I see as a kind of elitism among the bpw users that tends to dominate any talk about BCs on the forum. I'm sorry if I'm way off base with this...just expressing my take on it.

cheers

Billy S.

Not to nit pick but: What do you classify as "if their diving warrents it."?

What this sounds like to me is that you are saying that bpw's are for tech diving and that you don't see an application in recreational diving.

Perhaps I'm reading too much between the lines.

 

[Moogyboy]

I have to agree with Lamont and Bob's sentiments. I spent a long time diving jacket style, before going to back inflate, then to a BP&W. I even have a couple of PADI certs.

Many of us have experience diving with all sorts of different gear and have generally gone down the long road of experience before finally settling on a BP&W. When someone askes then I'm more than happy to talk about the comparitive virtues of using a BP&W. When someone who has never tried one gets on a soapbox condemning their usage and my experience - then I also will answer.

As well you should. I admit I've never dove a bpw. I'd like to, one of these days. I'm sure they're terrific. No way will I criticize bpw's themselves--I think it's dumb to criticize a product you've never used, unless it's just got obvious flaws that any knowledgeable person can see.

I could care less what your configuration is. Poodle jacket to BPW - the gear doesn't make the diver. It may make it more enjoyable for the diver, but going out and just spending $10,000 grand on tech gear aint going to make you a cave or wreck diver.
I dive with plenty of people that look like a walking dive shop in the parking lot, yet underwater they perform beautifully.

Bottom line for me diving with anyone there are a few rules that I hold them to.
1. Good buddy awareness at all times.
2. Don't rototil the bottom.
3. Decent buoyancy.
4. Don't be destructive to what we are looking at underwater.
5. Plan the dive and dive the plan.
6. Be responsible for watching you own gas.

If someone breaks these rules, but says to me that they want to learn how to get better then great. If they don't - I likely won't bring it to their attention and I probably won't dive with them again.

If this attitude makes me an activist - so be it.

Thank you. Excellent post.

cheers

Billy S.

 

[MASS-Diver]

IRL, no...hardly anyone I know dives bpw's. On SB, yes.




Which is exactly what I'm getting at...that's how it should be and I hope it really is IRL. But we were talking about the (rather vocal) bpw fans on SB. I honestly don't care either way. I use a jacket because that's what I have and it suits the kind of diving I do. I won't knock bpw fans for using whatever kind of gear they want, if their diving warrants it. I'm primarily responding to what I see as a kind of elitism among the bpw users that tends to dominate any talk about BCs on the forum, and people who dive jackets get automatically steered toward bpws regardless of what the person really wants/needs. I'm sorry if I'm way off base with this...just expressing my take on it.

cheers

Billy S.

Here's my point: divers that happen to sit near me on the boat aren't interesting in hearing what the heck I think abou their gear.

But, on a site like SB people are here to learn and hear other people's viewpoints. My viewpoint is that jakcket style BCs are junk - I owned 2 , including a top shelf SQ that cost me an arm and a leg. I hatedthem and I feel like if I had been more educated I would never have purchased one. The ONLY reason I went to a bp/wing in the first place was that I read about them here.

I do my best not to be rude online - but at the same time, people come to these forums to read about other people's experince with gear - why should I tiptoe around the point? I don't like jacket BCs and yes I make judgments about people that dive them (although, again, one of my buddies dives one now - so it's not a rule out factor, more a red flag).

Is it really helpful for me just post the same old "if you like them that's fine, if not that's fine" what information does that give to someone reading these threads?

 

[novadiver]

I watched two gents yesterday, both in Zeagal jackets and steel singles and they were totally squared away. had no probs with any skill. didn't rototill , didn't keep flailing the arms, just squared away divers having fun and then I saw two split finners leaving a wake of mushroom clouds behind them, tisk, tisk just goes to show, no matter what you wear, the skills are the same.

Did I mention the split finners had bp/w set ups?

 

[OE2X]

No way will I criticize bpw's themselves--I think it's dumb to criticize a product you've never used, unless it's just got obvious flaws that any knowledgeable person can see.
.

In many cases gear doesn't appear to have obvious visual flaws. You have to try something to know if it's going to work or not. A jacket looks like it will work fine and it does... but there is better out there.

When you become discerning and try a bunch of other BCD's you may find that the jacket is no longer as wonderful as you first thought. That has certainly been my experience. I dumped a lot of hard earned cash into bcd's that just don't work the same way as a bpw. I wish I had listened to those on this board who were advocating them. They and now I have been through the experience of blowing lots of $$$ on stuff that is nowhere as good. The zealotry that you are experiencing from those of us is because we don't want anyone else to have to go through what we have.

It's not a cult. You don't get a decoder ring or learn the secret sign that you flash to other divers in the water, on the beach or gearing up on the dive boat. Most of us leave the smug little smirk of "We know better" back in our thinned out wallets.

 

[MASS-Diver]

I watched two gents yesterday, both in Zeagal jackets and steel singles and they were totally squared away. had no probs with any skill. didn't rototill , didn't keep flailing the arms, just squared away divers having fun and then I saw two split finners leaving a wake of mushroom clouds behind them, tisk, tisk just goes to show, no matter what you wear, the skills are the same.

I know you don't respond to my posts anymore because, in your words, I'm a "book-end," but don't you think it makes sense to always select the optimal gear? My Dad pulled off some pretty serious dives with a double hose reg, no bc, etc - but he sure doesn't dive that rig anymore.

A talented diver can compensate for lots of sloppy gear and still look pretty good - but why not make it easy and more fun?

There's no doubt that there are tons of posers out there with tech/expensive gear that have no skills (in fact, that's what you accuse me of being), BUT when you do run into serious, highly skilled divers, most of them are really squared away gear wise too.

 

[novadiver]

I've seen gear heads complain about gear when in reality it was there skills that needed work.when I hear people advising other divers against jackets I wonder if these divers had enough practice in a jacket before they took someones advice and bought a bp/w setup.

another good one is the hidrodynamics agruement. why are you trying to break the underwater speed record anyway. It's only diving , slow down and have some fun.

 

[JeffG]

I've seen gear heads complain about gear when in reality it was there skills that needed work.when I hear people advising other divers against jackets I wonder if these divers had enough practice in a jacket before they took someones advice and bought a bp/w setup.

another good one is the hidrodynamics agruement. why are you trying to break the underwater speed record anyway. It's only diving , slow down and have some fun.

For me there are only 3 big benefits from the BP/Wing over the "Others"

1: Consistency of gear location, regardless of what rig I'm diving. (My doubles vs my easy peasy warm water wimp stuff)

2: Buoyancy Characteristics/Real Life weight Ratio. BP is way ahead in this regard.

3: Crotch strap. My Jacket BC always slipped up my body when floating at the surface (a part of being tall and skinny I'm thinking)

Other than that...the BP/wing is not a magic bullet. Its a bag of air, just like all other BC's. It will not make a bad diver good.