OW failure, advice?

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Please see an ENT. Contact DAN for referrals. There are a lot of threads on SB about equalizing. There are multiple techniques.

Here is a long, but thorough video:
Here's a link.
6 Methods to Equalize Your Ears - Divers Alert Network (dan.org)

I hope this is useful for you and that once you get a clear by an ENT, you are able to equalize using a safe technique.

 

[TMHeimer]

No advice here medically regarding the ears. I will say that the only time I've been dizzy has been on occasion when ascending from say 20-30 feet. Nothing worrisome, I was told it was probably because one ear equalized before the other.
Anyway, I agree that there is an awful lot to absorb if you took the standard "weekend" course. I assisted on those often and found that I was glad I took the old "twice a week for 3 weeks" & sit in the classroom course. Can you find one of those?

 

[Subcooled]

It sounds like you ears won't equalize at the same time ("dizzy"). Take it slower.
There is no rule in diving that requires you to descend X feet per minute.
I once had to guide a student with equalization issues and we used about 20 minutes to descend to 60 feet. After that it was easy.

 

[johndiver999]

It sounds like you ears won't equalize at the same time ("dizzy"). Take it slower.
There is no rule in diving that requires you to descend X feet per minute.
I once had to guide a student with equalization issues and we used about 20 minutes to descend to 60 feet. After that is was easy.

I would be very, very worried that someone who has that much difficulty equalizing on the way down is going to be much more likely to get a reverse squeeze on the way up. If you can't equalize without difficulty, it is probably smarter to dive another day or do something else for fun. Forcing your way down like that would seem to put the individual in a very vulnerable position because they might not be able to come up in a slow manner and risk serious and potential permanent injury.

 

[Subcooled]

I would be very, very worried that someone who has that much difficulty equalizing on the way down is going to be much more likely to get a reverse squeeze on the way up. If you can't equalize without difficulty, it is probably smarter to dive another day or do something else for fun. Forcing your way down like that would seem to put the individual in a very vulnerable position because they might not be able to come up in a slow manner and risk serious and potential permanent injury.

I have had difficulty equalizing many many times when descending but never when ascending. I also have a friend who never has problems descending but suffers from reverse blocks like regularly. This leads me to think that these two problems might not be that much interconnected. Overpressure and underpressure in the middle ear have different effects.

Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[johndiver999]

It is associated with Eustachian tube openness, I assume.

For myself, I know for sure that forcing an equalization on the descent greatly increases the chance of a reverse squeeze, especially if one ear is being difficult. I have gotten serious Reverse squeeze in a pool from snorkeling to a depth of just 8 feet and been terribly messed up and had to lay on the pool deck until the air squeaks out. I've been on the verge of puking from that. I have all the sympathy in the world for someone who has one ear lock up on ascent. it is BAD.

Actively blowing hard into the ear (on the way down) has a way of injecting snot and other nasties down the tube, it is just not a good idea to persevere if inflammation, mucus or whatever are making it really hard to descend.

What is the old saying? If you are not in bed by 10....give up and go home..

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Go to an ENT and get examined, then heal up.
Learn to clear properly and give it another shot.
Find a new instructor.
It sounds like you were on a cattle drive.
You need to go at your own pace and get comfortable with each step.
3 hours of pool is horrendous!
No wonder the whole thing was a sh_t show!

When I did OW it was a full weekend of class and pool and we were in the pool at least six times during those two days for at least six hours total (or more), and that was a standard PADI class by the book. That was 1998 and nothing should have changed between then and now.
@boulderjohn is the guy that would know, but I’m pretty sure I’m right.
The ocean dives were two dives a day Sat and Sun the following weekend.
I believe comfort in the water is paramount to a successful outcome. It sounds like what you received was below basic standards.

 

[Belzelbub]

1 pool session of about 3 hours in the water before OW
8:3 student/instructor

Yeah I think after the first problem would have been the time to stop, but the instructor didn't seem to think it was a big deal. At the very least, I think I should have been taken to a spot where I could practice going down to like 8-10 ft. I wanted to ask if I could do this, but I felt pressure to keep up with the group and didn't speak up.

The instructor controlled the descent rate, but with my lack of buoyancy control I was up and down a bit, and not steady & smooth. Again I wanted more practice with this. I told the instructors I was having trouble controlling my buoyancy, and they didn't make any suggestions.

I did not effectively equalize, and like I said my perception was that I was going down slowly enough (as in, relative to everyone else I was matching their descent rate). My perception could easily be wrong though, and maybe I have to go down slower than most.

Thanks for the advice all. I was already thinking that I should spend the extra money on private or smaller classes, and I will definitely have to sort things out with the ENT.

Wow, your class sounds almost as bad as my first OW class. Mine had zero pool sessions and one dive to about 8’. So equalizing wasn’t really tested. I got my cert after that class, but really didn’t feel comfortable diving. I had to take another a few years after.

Definitely don’t use those instructors again. When you told the instructors you were having trouble with buoyancy, they absolutely should have tried to figure it out.

As suggested, see an ENT and give your ear time to heal. I agree that it sounds like a perforated eardrum. Your description of a violent decompression sounds like this is when it happened. Water can now get past the membrane and can lead to vertigo.

First, I would ask for a refund oaf at least some of the course. Talk to the owner, about the reason, especially if the owner was not one of the instructors. Then, contact the agency and log a complaint against the instructors. Finally, find a new instructor.

The pool sessions should be done over several days. As I mentioned, my first OW course had no pool sessions. My second was atypical in the opposite direction. That class had many pool sessions.

My kids courses were probably more typical. They had 4 pool sessions (each 3 hours long) with a fifth on the calendar if necessary. While it wasn’t necessary, the instructors would add more sessions if necessary.

 

[BoltSnap]

1 pool session of about 3 hours in the water before OW
8:3 student/instructor

ALL you had was 3 hours in the pool in TOTAL before you went to the openwater? Just 1 pool session of 3 hours ONLY and then you went to openwater? Am I understanding this right or am I missing something here?

I do around 25 - 28 hours in confined water/pool over 9 sessions (on average but based on performance not just numbers) with usually 4 students before I take the students to openwater (we do 8 dives for openwater over 4 days). We repeat ALL of the skills I taught my students several times during the confined water/pool sessions before they go to openwater. The last session in the confined water/pool is evaluation of ALL skills taught in the confined water to review everything making sure that the student can perform ALL of the skills with high degree of competency. Buoyancy control AND equalization are paramount in training (CW & OW).


The other scuba instructors in Libya do 6 hours in pool only however. They do 3 - 4 dives in openwater and then they certify the students. Classroom time is only 5 hours. They watch videos mostly and do the exam. Hardly any time teaching in class (they don't use books or any eLearning at all). For classroom, I have the students do the NAUI eLearning first and pass all of the online quizzes and final exam with 100% grade and then around 20 hours reviewing the entire theory part and covering in depth the critical chapters (science and physiology Chapter 4 of the NAUI textbook and the deco./dive tables Chapter 5). Student take a challenging written final exam at the end of the classroom work. I also give a 2 hour lecture on dive computer use prior to openwater to prepare the students for dive computers use in openwater (students use dive tables in planning for the openwater dives but also carry dive computers for them to learn how to use entry level DC's.).

 

[boulderjohn]

When I did OW it was a full weekend of class and pool and we were in the pool at least six times during those two days for at least six hours total (or more), and that was a standard PADI class by the book. That was 1998 and nothing should have changed between then and now.
@boulderjohn is the guy that would know, but I’m pretty sure I’m right.

In 1998 there was no time requirement. that ended about a decade before, when they switched to the idea that it was not the amount of time you were training that mattered, it was the amount of learning you demonstrated, however long it took you to learn it.

The requirements in 1998 were fewer than they are now (believe it or not), but the time it took would not be much different. When I started instructing in 2005, the requirements were exactly the same as they were in 1998, and the shop where I worked had classes spend 8 hours in the pool, and we sometimes had trouble getting done in that time. Students who were not quite there at the end of those sessions would need extra time.