PETE SPOKE!!! (AND WE RECORDED IT)

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Oh dear, as a fellow NAUI Instructor [30+ years] I thought you may find the funny side.
Such serious people now.
I will watch it again, coffee in hand, bright eyed.
I don't know it all, never did and never will, it's just in my DNA to be "a smart arse".
I will try not to laugh or fall asleep on the off chance I my accidentally learn something.:p
Have a laugh.:happywave:
Maybe if you had stayed awake, you could have learned something. But then again, it sounds like you already know everything so perhaps the nap really was your best option.
 
Oh dear, as a fellow NAUI Instructor [30+ years] I thought you may find the funny side. Such serious people now.
Maybe when you write something, you're just not as "funny" as you think you are.
:yeahbaby:
Don't OD on coffee. I'm sending you some No-Doze to help get you through it.
If you DO fall asleep again, note the time-code on the YouTube video and then you can rewind it to that spot and pick up where you dozed off.
Or, if you find you simply can't stay awake through it, cue it up next to your bed so if there's a night you're having trouble falling asleep, you can run it and get off to la-la land quickly.
And don't forget to account for not only the time difference between here and Queensland, but also that you're on the other side of the Dateline. That may also be affecting things.
:wink:
 
As I promised earlier, I will post some real Reef Seekers numbers tomorrow, both from when we were a traditional retail brick-and-mortar and after we lost our lease and went to a slimmed down travel-focused internet-based operation.

In the meantime, I found an article talking about the size of the U.S. diving industry that I thought would be of interest given how this conversation/thread has developed. In general, the study shows 1500 dive shops producing about $750M in revenue (excluding foreign trips which skews numbers heavily), an average of $500,000/shop (which I think is a bit high), with new divers generating 40-50% of the annual revenue for a local dive shop. Interesting read and pretty much jives with what I've seen from other studies:

THE SIZE OF THE SCUBA DIVING INDUSTRY
 
The LDS I use ran a trip to Truk a few years ago. I would have sold my wife to go but nobody wanted her.
Now that's a good laugh.:yeahbaby:
I remember the fun we once had, would not get away with it now, someone would sue your arse or whatever.
I remember a night dive in Watsons Bay Sydney and Jaws was the movie of the moment , the boat Coxswain Paul D.... [mate of mine] played the jaws theme music through an underwater speaker, nobody took it serious and we all had a good laugh. Such fun.
My point is, some of the fun has gone.
 
REAL NUMBERS FOR DIVE SHOP REVENUE
Continuing on this theme of the discussion, here are my real numbers for Reef Seekers in 1999 (full-service brick-and-mortar retail store) and 2019 (internet-based, no physical store, focusing on foreign/vacation travel with some local trips and repairs). The irony is that I grossed almost 5X more in 1999 than 2019, but lost money in 1999 and made a decent profit/return in 2019. Go figure. I think the highest we ever grossed was a shade under $1 million and the lowest was probably around $550,000.

Also bear in mind I'm located in Southern California and in 1999, we had about 50+ dive shops in the area (including the Sport Chalet chain). Reef Seekers is located in Beverly Hills and we had six shops within about 5 miles of us. In SoCal, we have access to local boats and shore diving which impacts the revenue stream. A land-locked dive shop in Colorado or Kansas or West Virginia is going to have different revenue streams, as will a shop in Florida or Hawaii where the water is warmer and they get tourist divers as well.

1999 (CLASSES, GEAR, 50-60 LOCAL BOAT TRIPS AVG. 30 DIVERS/TRIP, TWO FOREIGN/VACATION TRIPS)
TOTAL GROSS REVENUE - $668,681
Basic classes - $18,859 (3% of the total revenue)
Adv/other classes - $6,548 (1%)
Basic gear - $94,919 (14%)
Scuba gear & accessories - $315,042 (47%)
Local boat trips - $76,435 (11%)
Service & repair - $38,864 (6%)
Vacation trips - $50,697 (8%)
Other - $67,317 (10%)

Other considerations and cost-of-goods:
Salaries & taxes - $80,490
Rent - $42,483 (we had a 2500sf free-standing place with 18 parking spaces)
Cost of merchandise - $273,766 (33% margin - includes basic gear which as higher margin and big-ticket items with lower margins)
Cost of local trips - $67,135 (12% margin - slightly misleading because basic classes also did these trips and those $$$ were included in their class fee)
Cost of vacation trips - $49,915 (2% margin - cost also includes paying for trip leader airfare, food, etc.)

2019 (FIVE FOREIGN/VACATION TRIPS, NO BASIC CLASSES, 6-8 LOCAL TRIPS AVERAGING 5 DIVERS/TRIP, SOME REPAIRS)
TOTAL GROSS REVENUE - $139,856
Basic classes - $0 (0%)
Gear & accessories - $178 (<1%)
Local trips - $1,249 (1%)
Service & repair - $6,280 (5%)
Vacation trips - $131,352 (94%)
Other - $797 (<1%)

Other considerations and cost-of-goods:
Salaries & taxes - $5,980 (I still have a part-time bookkeeper coming in)
Rent - $0
Utilities & phone - $1,754
Cost of local trips - $1,209 (18% margin - these are single-day trips to the Avalon [Catalina] Underwater Park involving ferry, taxi, and tank rentals/airfills)
Cost of vacation trips - $101,951 (22% margin - cost also includes paying for trip leader airfare, food, etc.)
 
Well, I had fun and didn't fall asleep. :D It's my opinion that the "jam session" approach was far better than the PP I had prepared.

It's funny, but there are quite a number of assumptions made by many ScubaBoardians...
We rarely ban people, with the exception of spammers
I hardly ban anyone!​
I probably am not familiar with your username
I often act like I am
There's too many to keep up with
I probably don't remember our interactions either!​
I may not remember our dives
I often act like I do
The number of people that I've dove with far, far outnumber my dives​
I could go on, but I won't..​
 
Thanks for sharing the info.; it's particularly interesting because a recurrent topic on Scuba Board is how the recreational dive industry has changed over time and how businesses that cater to it (e.g.: local dive shops) have/can/must evolve/adapt to it to survive and maybe prosper. Does every LDS have to build a mail order business like a Scuba Toys wannabe? Or does LeisurePro gobble up the gear sales, leaving the LDS with classes and maybe quarry fees if they're fortunate enough to have one?

It sounds like you evolved from running a brick and mortar retail dive shop with various associated services (e.g.: offering some trips) to becoming primary an internet-based trip organizer...if I understand and paraphrase correctly.

Which leads me to wonder how many LDS's should try to evolve from a Mom & Pop gear and classes shop to a small specialty scuba travel agency?

Even there, the competition looks fierce. Since PADI bought out Diviac.com and turned it to PADITravel.com, there's a big brand name many newbies are familiar with. We already had LiveAboard.com, Caradonna and Maduro, from Scuba Board I learned of and use Blue Water Dive Travel, and there are a couple of other dive travel agents who've contributed enough on Scuba Board I'd be open to using them (Dom@DiveAdvice with Dive Advice Travel, and DiveTheGalapagos), and for the Scuba Board Surge 2019 to Curacao we all used BayAdventures.com (good experience). I've booked directly with Aggressor Fleet before; it went fine. That's not even counting my local trip organizers.

So the question becomes...how did Reef Seekers secure its dedicated travel diving customer pool to make the business model work? Was it mainly local social networking, given that California has such an active local dive scene?
 
Does every LDS have to build a mail order business like a Scuba Toys wannabe? Or does LeisurePro gobble up the gear sales, leaving the LDS with classes and maybe quarry fees if they're fortunate enough to have one?
It's almost impossible to get reliable numbers on privately-held companies but it would seem that LeisurePro and Scuba.com have the bulk of the internet business. Most stores that I know of who have tried to set up internet-based sales have found it to be more trouble than it's worth because of the dominance of already-established sites whose primary business is on-line sales, not just doing it as an adjunct to their brick-and-mortar store.
It sounds like you evolved from running a brick and mortar retail dive shop with various associated services (e.g.: offering some trips) to becoming primary an internet-based trip organizer...if I understand and paraphrase correctly.
Yes.
So the question becomes...how did Reef Seekers secure its dedicated travel diving customer pool to make the business model work? Was it mainly local social networking, given that California has such an active local dive scene?
So some clarification is in order.

When we were brick-and-mortar, my biz partner Billy loved doing retail and I loved teaching and taking people diving. At the end of 2006 (we opened in 1988), we lost the lease on our Beverly Hills Wilshire Blvd. store because they wanted to build condos on the property. Billy, who started working for his parents in 1965 when he was a teen when they owned what eventually become Reef Seekers, wanted to get out of the scuba rat race. On top of that - and bear in mind, this was all right before the recession of 2008 - real estate prices had gone up, plus we had a pretty good deal. I estimated for a similar location, not necessarily in Beverly Hills, and not close enough to infringe on the territory of any other stores in our general vicinity (so we wouldn't lose various equipment lines), our rent would double to roughly $10,000/month. That was going to require us to increase our overall revenues by about $165,000/year just to stay even. made no sense.

By the same token, we had a pretty solid customer base and we had long-established a great e-mailing list. The store, and specifically me, were always active and visible in local scuba events, we ran Chamber Day, sI spoke at many clubs, we were at the Scuba Show each year, etc., etc. In other words, a lot of people knew who we were. I thought I could use that level of visibility and awareness to continue to take people diving, even without the benefit of a retail store. So I decided to forge ahead without Billy, kept the name "Reef Seekers" (Billy and I worked our a dissolution agreement so I bought out his share of the company), and off we went.

For a number of years, I was able to keep our local boat charters going. (Reef Seekers was one of the more active dive shop charterers in the area.) And I now had time to do more foreign/vacation trips. I also continued to send our to our e-mail list (roughly 1,000 people - mostly SoCal), the weekly "This Week at Reef Seekers" (aka TWARS) which I also post here, and a monthly newsletter (which also gets posted here. My goal was to let our base know that we were still diving, they were still welcome, and life was good. At the same time, this set me up as a resource for diving info. People feel free to call me and ask questions about local and foreign destinations. Plus I'll throw in news, info, and tidbits into TWARS so it's not just a Reef Seekers promotional piece but also (hopefully) has some meat to it and is worth reading. Same with the newsletter. And the hope is that someday when someone's ready to do a dive vacation, they'll think, "Maybe I'll call Ken and see what he's got going."

Obviously my biggest issue is attrition because, as my customer base gets older, they stop diving for various reasons and I don't have a store that's bringing in new blood. But I dod pick up new people here and there, usually through word-of-mouth, and that seems to be working. On a trip to Socorro I have in March of next year, out of 15 divers signed up, I have 4 people who have never done one of these trips with me before but they've been on my e-mail list for years and years. Plus, I'm generally attracting people with dispensable income and available time so, unlike a traditional store, I have a very high percentage of my smaller customer base that is willing/able to travel with me. I make sure people know I specialize in smaller group trips and I also make sure they know that they'll be able to dive with me and I'm there to fix problems and answers questions when needed. My joke is that you'll have my undivided attention for the entire vacation, but for another extra $500, I'll leave you alone.

My other pitch is that all you need to do is pay for the trip and then show up at the airport and I'll take it from there. I fix the problem and deal with the hassles. When you book a trip with me, one fee covers everything (except airfare) for the trip: the trip itself, crew/staff tips, hotel overnight if needed, taxis or other transfers, etc. I don't want to nickel-and-dime you to death. I basically tell people that you might be able to book the same trip for less, but you won't have a better time because I'll deal with any problems as well as because a lot of people know me and we frequently go back to places we've been before, we're going to get taken care of better than you will if you go there on your own as an unknown quantity.

I also have exactly ZERO interest in becoming a booking agent for other people's trips. I only deal with trips that I am going to lead. I'm happy to refer you to any of the travel wholesalers you mentioned because that's just not what I do.

It's all been working for me for 14 years now but I also think I'm in a rather unique position to make this all happen. What will be most interesting to me is to see how this all works out post-pandemic since obviously I had to curtail for the last 18 months exactly what my business model is designed to do. But I've stayed in touch with people and of the two trips I've got for 2022, they're both full. So we shall see what the future holds.
 
It's almost impossible to get reliable numbers on privately-held companies but it would seem that LeisurePro and Scuba.com have the bulk of the internet business..

Don’t forget Dive Gear Express and Dive Right in Scuba. Both have very large internet presences.
 
Don’t forget Dive Gear Express and Dive Right in Scuba. Both have very large internet presences.
According to Dun & Bradstreet, here's who's who in annual sales revenue:
Leisure Pro - $7.63 million
Scuba.com - $4.92 million
Dive Right In - $1.33 million
Scuba Toys - $1.23 million
Dive Gear Express - $590,000
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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