PETE SPOKE!!! (AND WE RECORDED IT)

[Ken Kurtis]

Watched the first 10min and woke up near the end.
I needed a good afternoon nap, thanks.
Some of the people [old men like me] on the 'zoom' looked like they needed one too.

Maybe if you had stayed awake, you could have learned something. But then again, it sounds like you already know everything so perhaps the nap really was your best option.

 

[happy-diver]

So perhaps in netdocs spirit of niceness you could have just appreciated Pressureheads [old men like me]
and recognised, that he probably just needed that good nap, to just refresh his particular sense of humour

Remember it's your history not all will be interested in videos promoting a business to make more business
Personally although it suits him perfectly I just can't do Murrays voice and wish I'd never seen or heard him

I prefer the mystiqe perhaps you could organise a transcript or narrator or translator into another language.

Where is the love

 

[Diving Dubai]

I think the problem - and I've said this for years - is that we have a fatal flaw in the construct of the industry.
• Why do people want to get certified? So they can dive.
• So they have to go to a dive shop (or independent instructor) to get certified.
• Does the dive shop, post-class, then take them diving? No.
• The dive shop tries all they can to sell them more gear (beyond basic) and more classes.
• Did anyone reading this get certified because they wanted the privilege of buying gear or the ability to take more classes? IMHO, no.
• They got certified because they want to go dive and see things.
• Now ask yourselves how many dive shops really focus on taking people diving instead of selling them gear and more classes.
• And that, to me, is the problem with the industry.
• As a whole, we spend our efforts trying to get people we just certified to buy gear and classes.
• When they don't, we then recruit a new group to certify in hopes of selling THEM more gear and classes.
• And because we're too busy organizing the next class, we don't have time to satisfy the desire we helped create in them.
• Essentially, we create new customers and then fail at fulfilling the reason they came to us in the first place.
• And that's the essential problem with the business model of the dive industry. We simply don't give the people what they want so we have to constantly re-invent our customer base which doesn't leave us time to give the customers what they want.

That's a real broad brush you're painting with there. It may be the case for your brick and motor shops in your area.

Out here the Dive shops exist by offering diving. Sure the big 2 have a second shop selling gear, and services like equipment services and tank fills etc, but theri primary income is from diving first and courses second. I know this as a fact because my wife is the tax accountant for 2 of them.

The way shops build a customer base is by building a community. People meet other people, enjoy diving with them and arrange a meet. All the centres I frequent you always bump into regulars and they're all treated like family.

When I first joined my old BSAC club, I was a wet behind the ear novice with 21 vacation dives, here was a group that had worn out the tee shirt, some had been diving for 30+ years in the region. Even the grumpiest curmudgeon who'd probably taught Pontius Pilate to dive, was willing to be my buddy on a few dives, to teach and mentor in a constructive fashion and point me in the right direction.

Some of these divers were engaging on weekly 100m rebreather dives, others would drop themselves in stupid currents (it took 3 more years before I'd gained the experience to be allowed to dive in those areas) But there I was having them highly knowledgeable and experienced people, agreeing to go on a 25m reef or external wreck pootle with me.

This is what kept me in diving. Meting and diving with people I like. Even a crap day's diving is fun with the right people

Now I consider is my duty to do the same for others now whatever the age difference (although I never bothered to move to rebreathers - I wasn't that foolish)

So perhaps it's not the CA business model which needs changing, rather the attitude. Certainly from seeing that call, the group neither appeared that welcoming nor that experienced (outside of So Cal) Sam III excepted

 

[AfterDark]

Anecdotal I know, I've seen lots of LDS come and go in 5 decades of diving. We now have 2 or 3 left in RI and 1 in MA that serves most of southern MA and I think one on the cape of which I know nothing. Two of the 3 LDS have been around more than 20 years, the 3rd for about 10 years. They all do one thing well, take people diving. All have free guided shore diving as well as charter diving both local and travel. The LDS I use ran a trip to Truk a few years ago. I would have sold my wife to go but nobody wanted her. They also run a yearly trip to NC for some of the best wreck diving on the east coast.

There was a LDS that opened in Jamestown a few years back, Jamestown is the home of the most used and populated dive site in the state. One would think a LDS there would be a slam dunk. They offered no diving, they were the only air station on Jamestown island, they lasted one season.
@Ken Kurtis maybe on to something.

EDIT: After thought, I got to thinking what kind of individual owns a dive shop but doesn't dive with their customers? I thought that was one of the advantages of being a LDS owner, low cost frequent diving while getting and keeping people interested in diving.

Maybe LDS should consider establishing a mission statement just to make it clear what they do and don't do. Some probably do.

Many years ago I would have greatly appreciated free shore diving as there was seldom anyone to dive with. The charters have always been beyond my budget except for the rare vacation trip but, I look at the LDS web site and most charters are always booked full with a list of people in case of cancellations so, they are popular.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

The dive shops here in South FL that I know the most about (I'm a regular customer of all of them) … Pura Vida on Singer Island near Blue Heron Bridge, Force-E with 3 locations in Southeast FL (Riviera Beach by Blue Heron Bridge, Boca Raton and Pompano Beach), and SCUBAdventures in Naples ... have all been around for several decades or more. They also happen to focus A LOT on getting and keeping people diving. Yes, they offer instruction, equipment, service and fills. That is essential to their business models. But they also work hard on the diving.

Pura Vida owns two boats and runs a very vibrant charter business. They also do a lot of guided dives at Blue Heron Bridge. Force-E serves as a trip coordinator booking customers on many local non-shop affiliated boats. They also offer a lot of guided shore dives at Blue Heron Bridge and other shore diving sites. Both also run foreign trips as well several times a year. Both shops also offer regular, ongoing free seminars/webinars to build and maintain their community of active divers.

SCUBAdventures is a bit unique being in Naples. They have been around since 1993. There is not a lot of local diving in Southwest FL. There is some but nothing like what is available in Southeast FL. They focus HEAVILY on dive travel. They have a very nice shop with all of the gear you would expect, run a very nice fill operation, and offer a full line of services. I get most of my tanks serviced there because they are 20 minutes from my home. They offer a full line of SDI training but not an insane amount. They currently only have a few instructors. They live and breath on (1) supporting the local divers with equipment and fills (mostly spearfisherman) and (2) dive travel. They run trips to the Keys, all over the Caribbean, and to Asia. The pandemic hit them hard but the owner is a very savvy businessmen who runs a lean operation and seems to know how to run a business well. He has survived and his business is now rapidly growing back again.

All three examples I believe support Ken's point. The most successful dive shops offer instruction, equipment, and service ... but they also focus a lot of effort on the actual diving. My only challenge to Ken is that there ARE dive shops who are doing this well by focusing on instruction, equipment, AND DIVING. Certainly not enough of them, but they are out there.

 

[drrich2]

• They got certified because they want to go dive and see things.

Yes, and for many of us who don't live in coastal areas but want to dive in the ocean, not a quarry, cost is a big issue. That's why I started including detailed trip budget breakdowns in my trip reports; so people can see the price tag.

I wonder how many intermediate divers, once they get 3 or 4 group trips in, prefer to dive with a group vs. booking their own independent trips (whether via travel agent or not), and how many of the groups have a broad mix (good for helping newbies into the hobby) vs. catering to more seasoned divers (i.e.: the 'cool kids').

In my area, local dive shops and an independent instructor offer a range of trips - things like Turquoise Bay Resort in Roatan (or Bonaire or Belize), short trips to North Carolina, Panama City Beach or to dive an aquarium with whale sharks in Georgia, etc...

 

[Ken Kurtis]

That's a real broad brush you're painting with there. It may be the case for your brick and motor shops in your area.

No question it's a broad brush. As the commercial disclaimer goes, "Your results may differ."

I think one of the biggest differences between the US and Dubai is water temp as well as water accessibility. Specifically in SoCal, out water temps run around 50-65ºF depending on time of the year. Dubai seems to run 70-90ºF and most of time above 80ºF. That makes a big difference is people's willingness to get into the water. You've also got easy access to the water since you're right on the coast of the Persian Gulf. That also makes a difference. Here in the US, shops in SE Florida (especially the Keys) are going to be more likely to be running local trips and have that as a different % of their income stream vs. a store in Kansas City which is land-locked with limited diving opportunities.

So yes, broad brush and mainly applies to US-based dive shops.

 

[Ken Kurtis]

My only challenge to Ken is that there ARE dive shops who are doing this well by focusing on instruction, equipment, AND DIVING. Certainly not enough of them, but they are out there.

I absolutely agree and that's my point. Not saying these shops don't exist but simply pointing out that most shops succumb to the class/gear/next-class pattern. I'd be curious to know for those shops that DO emphasis diving - local &/or travel/foreign - what % of their income that is. I'm going to try to find some of my old spreadsheets from when we (Reef Seekers) had the brick & mortar open and break it down in terms of % of income stream and will post the numbers here for further discussion.

 

[Ken Kurtis]

I wonder how many intermediate divers, once they get 3 or 4 group trips in, prefer to dive with a group vs. booking their own independent trips . . .

You bring up an excellent point that I also sometimes like to rant about. (You al may have noticed I like to rant on occasion and love a good, productive back-and-forth. )

Go back to my original scenario and the newly-certified diver goes back to his/her LDS ready to dive and says, "Let's go somewhere. What have you got?" And the LDS replies, "We don't have time for trips because we're too busy teaching classes." So what does that new diver do? They find a way to book their own trip. And eventually they realize that if they're willing to do the work, they can set up their own vacations and don't need the LDS, which doesn't have the time, to do so, so they stop inquiring about trips with that LDS. And from the LDS perspective, they figure, "Why should I waste time and potentially lose big money of foreign trips when no one is asking about them?" It's a vicious cycle.

 

[Ken Kurtis]

BTW . . .

Thanks to those of you who have taken time to watch the Zoom Seekers recording, all or part. I haven't yet posted the link to my Reef Seekers divers and have only listed the link here. So far, 116 of you have popped in to watch all or part (plus one nap). We do these Zoom Seekers monthly with various speakers and I post the recording on my YouTube page. After the live Zoom call, the average views of the YouTube version is usually 30-40. So Pete's talk is setting new viewer records and it's all (right now) coming from ScubaBoard posters and lurkers. Thanks!!!