Can we take things from the ocean?

[Akimbo]

... nor did I realize the laws varied by type of dive, location, etc.

Yep, it is complex. There are places with legislation that prohibits divers from wearing gloves in order to discourage touching anything other than the anchor line and ladder. Other places are fine with dynamite fishing. I have been to countries that sell frozen whale meat in grocery stores. Sensibilities vary.

 

[Rick Brant]

Fishing for sustenance aside, leaving a place the way you found it is not a moral issue. It's a simple courtesy to the next person that visits. It doesn't matter if you place a nice bow on the porthole you chop out, or if you are able to keep some poor fish on life support while you excitedly transport it back to your bachelor lair. Nobody cares about those excuses. Just enjoy what is there, and leave it for the next person to enjoy. It's not complicated, and not moral.

Being governed only by the law is fine if that is what you need. As time advances, laws are catching up and removing things is becoming less and less legal. In Hawaii where I generally dive, the work of "marine aquarists" is thankfully, albeit slowly, being made illegal. As the law catches up to our ecological reality, and as the distributed value of the ocean and its contents becomes more concrete, I believe laws will continue to get tighter. I suspect most of the loudest fans of "taking" in this thread are all over fifty years old -- the concept of collecting will die out as they do, and as the laws tighten up.

 

[Jcp2]

How do you get to Hawaii? Plane or sailboat?

 

[Rick Brant]

I live on Kaua'i, but travel by air to other places. I'm not arguing carbon footprint, or meat-v-meatless, or anything like that though. I'm simply answering the OP's original question. Aside from fishing, nobody should be taking anything while diving. This is literally the discussion that backpackers had 30 years ago and it was long decided for them. There is no justification for taking random items from the sea to put on a shelf, or necklace, or in a tank.

 

[Tripp]

So, shelling on a beach is also morally reprehensible?

 

[Marie13]

O.M.G. PSD diver, don't go there!

This is "Basics".

He’s probably brought up some, uh, very interesting things. Besides bodies.

 

[Rick Brant]

So, shelling on a beach is also morally reprehensible?

Now that is a much better question, but as I keep saying -- this is not a moral issue. It's courtesy and common sense to leave the natural world alone for others to enjoy, and for it to thrive.

As for shelling on a beach, there is a beach on Kaua'i known as Glass Beach. Not that long ago -- maybe 5-6 years ago -- it had a ton of polished glass, caused by a combination of the location of an old dump and the wave action on the small crescent of sand. Once Glass Beach became known, and more people visited and "collected" the glass, it started to disappear. People would post images of their hauls -- sometimes it would be a mason jar full of glass that would end up on a shelf. Now there is no more glass on Glass Beach -- none! So you tell me, would it be better if the glass was still on the beach, or is it better on the shelf? The same discussion can be had about multiple shells on Kaua'i including the current favorite of collectors, the Sunrise shell.

 

[agilis]

I live on Kaua'i, but travel by air to other places. I'm not arguing carbon footprint, or meat-v-meatless, or anything like that though. I'm simply answering the OP's original question. Aside from fishing, nobody should be taking anything while diving. This is literally the discussion that backpackers had 30 years ago and it was long decided for them. There is no justification for taking random items from the sea to put on a shelf, or necklace, or in a tank.

Why is fishing ok, considering it's the removal of a fully grown animal which is far less common than its juvenile conspecifics, but collecting a small fish for an aquarium where it may, statistically, outlive its brethren, is not? I've participated in studies that try to gauge the mortality of certain fishes from given point to point. 95% mortality for one year of juvenile development is typical.

Clumsy mass collecting for the aquarium trade damages the reef, and it's that reality that creates a problem. The careful collection one or two fishes by a dedicated environmentalist and student of marine biology who is a skilled diver and able to catch a fish without damaging anything is far more benign than the group dives I see, with idiot photographers harassing all manner of creatures and clinging to the bottom to get a shot that has already been taken a million times and that nobody is interested in beyond the photographer him or her self.

I've collected with academic ichthyologists on occasion, and I'm much better at it than most of them are. They also will take in a couple of days more fish than I've collected in a decade. US Fish and Wildlife rules state that bringing in up to 6 fish for personal use is quite legal, last I checked. I've never brought back that many, except when I'm collecting local Gulf Stream strays which will all die in the fall, and giving them to friends who own shops or wholesale operations. I truly love my handful of fish, carefully maintained in large aquaria, fed hand blended foods or natural foods I collect, and living for many years. My oldest at this point is 16 years. I've had them go as long as 20 years. It's true they are removed from the wild breeding cohort, but so are those tasty Mahi-Mahi.

 

[Celt]

I think the most unnatural place for a ship to be is on the bottom, so get busy and bring them back to their natural location. On the surface.

 

[EFX]

Aside from fishing, nobody should be taking anything while diving.

I agree. We have gift shops that do that for us.