Careless instructor or overthinking newbie

[Aura]

So which specialty dives were you supposedly doing in this AOW class?

Navigation - I had to swim in a square with a compass, and I nailed it the first time so he said that was good enough.
Depth - went to 30m, so I guess that's checked off alright.
Drift diving - there was a current, but we went down and up along the same path so there was hardly any drift diving involved.
Drysuit - I don't think I learned anything useful here, since the suit was so flooded that there was no chance of suit squeeze, no buoyancy or anything.
Perk performance buoyancy - not really sure what to expect from this one, and I certainly learned nothing new. I've been told that my trim and buoyancy control is quite good for someone as inexperienced as I am though, so maybe it wasn't super necessary.

General Standards and Procedures:
Equipment
Standard Diver Equipment
Make sure divers have, at a minimum:
1. Fins, mask and snorkel
9. At least one audible emergency surface signaling device (whistle, air horn, etc.).

That actually reminds me, I brought my own mask and snorkel, but was told to take the snorkel off as it "wouldn't be necessary". I was quite confused as I've never gone diving without one, but didn't want to argue and, again, was probably quite naïve when going into this.
Also had no audible signaling device. I got a whistle in the PADI AOW package, but was told to not bring it.

I'd suggest taking GUE fundies next: GUE Fundamentals.

My impression was that the GUE fundamentals course was pretty much a gateway into tech diving, and mostly useful for divers considerably more experienced and advanced than I currently am. Is that assumption wrong?

 

[ginti]

My impression was that the GUE fundamentals course was pretty much a gateway into tech diving, and mostly useful for divers considerably more experienced and advanced than I currently am. Is that assumption wrong?

Hi @Aura, your assumption is partially wrong. A tec-pass rating from Fundies is indeed the first step to start technical/overhead training with GUE. However, the course is conceived to build up all the "fundamental" skills (hence its name), like buoyancy control, trim, propulsion techniques, team awareness, and basic drills (e.g. gas sharing, SMB deployment, valve drill). Theoretically, all these skills should be learnt during OW courses and refined with experience, but the reality is that often people do not manage to learn them, so GUE decided to build this course.

Because it is about fundamental skills, any diver can benefit (except - maybe - those already advanced who do not need any skills refinement). There are alternatives to Fundies from several agencies, including PADI, TDI, IANTD etc. GUE indeed has outstanding quality control, but keep in mind that the instructor's way of teaching must fit your personality; otherwise, your learning experience will not be satisfactory.

In Scandinavia, GUE tends to be quite active, as far as I know. I do not know anyone personally there, but one of my buddies did the fundamentals and tec1 with instructor Annika Persson (active both in Norway and Sweden) and had only good words for her. Also, she knows many GUE divers in Norway, and she is still friends with them.

As in any choice, there are many positive and negative aspects, which I will discuss if you will ask.

Whatever you choose, good luck (and don't dive again with the instructor of this thread!)

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

My impression was that the GUE fundamentals course was pretty much a gateway into tech diving, and mostly useful for divers considerably more experienced and advanced than I currently am. Is that assumption wrong?

GUE fundies was created due to GUE receiving so many divers requiring remedial training. @ginti provided a great overview of the course. Honestly I believe that every diver should take it in a single tank configuration after open water. The goal shouldn't be earning a rec pass but rather establishing a solid recreational skills foundation before bad habits are ingrained. Even if you decide to dive a jacket style BCD afterwards (though I strongly recommend a BP/W for cold water diving), you will still carry the skills improvement with you.

I do realize that my advice irritates many instructors from mainstream agencies, but so far these are people who have no experience with DIR training. When I took fundies, the clouds parted as angels were singing and it changed my diving and teaching alike.

Because you are a thinking diver, I also recommend Human Factors in Diving. It is a non skills course that will improve how you mentally approach diving and will make you a safer diver. The Human Diver - Counter-errorism in Diving - Home Page on the web and https://www.facebook.com/groups/184882365201810 on FB. Feel free to reach out to Gareth, tell him I sent you.

Good luck!

 

[kelemvor]

Did you read the thread about the young woman who drowned in the US VERY overweighted in a drysuit with no inflator hose on the suit? Your situation reminds me of that.

A drysuit that doesn’t fit and floods that badly is dangerous.

Did I read correctly that your refresher was done in a drysuit? That’s not a refresher if you’ve never dived dry before.

Your instructor was very negligent.

Report him to whatever the training agency is.

That accident was exactly what was running through my mind when I saw this report as well. This guy should be reported. He might have been just having a bad day, but it could have cost this diver her life.

 

[NorCalDM]

Navigation - I had to swim in a square with a compass, and I nailed it the first time so he said that was good enough.
Depth - went to 30m, so I guess that's checked off alright.
Drift diving - there was a current, but we went down and up along the same path so there was hardly any drift diving involved.
Drysuit - I don't think I learned anything useful here, since the suit was so flooded that there was no chance of suit squeeze, no buoyancy or anything.
Perk performance buoyancy - not really sure what to expect from this one, and I certainly learned nothing new. I've been told that my trim and buoyancy control is quite good for someone as inexperienced as I am though, so maybe it wasn't super necessary.

These are suppose too be done as separate dives not crammed into two dives that you cut short. PADI AOW is five dives and the refresher should have been it's own as well so you really paid for six dives. I would be seriously pissed and demanding my money back and also report the shop and instructor. Glad you are ok.

 

[Outbound]

Reading the story of your experience just days after reading about that poor young woman who died in Montana under eerily similar circumstances is absolutely sickening. I’m sorry you had to go through that. Huge kudos to you for having the wherewithal to thumb the dives.

I will also second (third, fourth…) the suggestion that you call the dive shop and demand a refund and contact the certifying agency and give them a full rundown of what transpired. The way that instructor acted is unsafe and unprofessional, and if he is allowed to continue acting in that way someone will end up getting hurt or killed.

I think you nailed it with the lessons you say you learned. To other new or inexperienced divers starting their journey, I would just add:

1. Do your research about the dive training you are seeking. That way, when you talk to the folks at the shop or your instructor, you’ll have a better understanding of what will be required, what should be required, etc. Too many people just blindly accept what the shop owner or instructor tells them. That’s natural, because they are supposed to be “the experts.” And in most cases, they are. But unfortunately, sometimes they either don’t know what they are talking about or, for whatever reason(s), have allowed their practices to slip into dangerous territory.

2. Following on this point, don’t be afraid to ask questions about what to expect from your training. You are paying good money to be taught critical diving skills important to your safety and enjoyment. Any shop worth its salt will be happy to answer any and all questions for you and to make sure you feel comfortable. If they don’t, find another shop/instructor.

3. If you are renting gear, it is always a good idea to check it over thoroughly beforehand. For things like regulators, it can be difficult if not impossible for new divers to know what to look for, especially while still on land. At the very least, however, you should try on your exposure suit and make sure that it fits reasonably well, and that, for example, your drysuit boots will fit into your fins. Be mindful that sometimes (often?) you will get an ill-fitting exposure suit. I took my drysuit course in a suit that was several sizes too big for me because that was the only one the shop had available to rent at the time. However, the owner made sure that the neck and wrist seals fit properly. It ended up being fine. Of course, if the seals leaked I would have known from my pool session. I’m still shaking my head that OP was allowed to dive in open water with a drysuit before any confined water instruction.

4. Always do a proper weight check when diving with new gear. Don’t just take someone else's word for it on how much lead you will need. I recently dove with a guy who ended up being massively overweighted because when he rented some weights the person at the shop looked him up and down and estimated how much weight he would need. The diver was AOW, so he should have known better than to just accept that. He ended up ping-ponging up and down the water column for most of the dive because he couldn’t get his buoyancy right. Until he decided to do a proper weight check two dives later.

5. Always remember that you are the primary person responsible for your own safety at all times, on all dives.

Lastly, as a dive community, we all need to be diligent about drumming out dangerous instructors and about maintaining good standards. I understand that there can be a fine line between making diving fun and accessible and making the training so difficult that it drives people away. But I’m confounded by both the stories of outright criminally negligent instructors as well as by stories - and my personal experiences - with divers who are fully certified but who are clearly either very poorly trained or who have forgotten most of that training. I'm a relatively new diver with only 3 years experience under my belt, so I'm hardly an expert. But some of the things I've seen just leave me shaking my head.

 

[Aura]

PADI AOW is five dives and the refresher should have been it's own as well so you really paid for six dives

I was quite disappointed that I didn't get all the dives that I was supposed to, but I felt partly responsible for that myself since I had thumbed the dives and was unable to go back in the water.

I will also second (third, fourth…) the suggestion that you call the dive shop and demand a refund and contact the certifying agency and give them a full rundown of what transpired.

I will do this. I'm just a bit afraid that I'll make myself enormously unpopular in the diving community here, by trying to ruin the career of an instructor that most people probably only have good experiences with. But some major mistakes were made, and they need to be addressed.

 

[Imla]

As I dont know where in Scandinavia you are, I cannot specifically give you advice on GUE instructors, but GUE has classes for drysuitdiving, REC2 (IE advanced + a bit) and of course fundamentals. I am not familiar with the finnish GUE instructors, but the Norwegians and the Swedes are all prime instructors. Jesper in Denmark I think is currently in Dubai.

I really think you should report this class to PADI.
If you are in Norway, and want to join a club, I can guide you to good clubs and good instructors.
If you want to try GUE, Annika Persson previously mentioned is extremely patient and as far as I know have a 100% trackrecord for "making" active divers. (Ie, not a single one of her OWclass students have quit...)

 

[Marie13]

@Aura

If anyone gives you grief about reporting that instructor, point them to the thread about Linnea and point out the similarities with your situation.

 

[ginti]

I felt partly responsible for that myself since I had thumbed the dives and was unable to go back in the water.

Please, never ever think anything like that.

You can thumb a dive whenever you want, and you can and should skip all the dives you feel the need to skip.

Obviously, if you thumb all the dives of the course or you skip all of them without specific reasons... maybe diving isn't for you, and the instructor should tell it to you.
And some courses might require a bit of stamina more.

But you had a leaking drysuit during a basic recreational course, that's a good reason to call a dive and you must not feel responsible or ashamed in any way for that. You did the right thing