Is a Pony Bottle too complicated for a beginner?

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You ought to read them anyway. Learn from the mistakes of others etc. Much more informative than the ramblings of Internet forum users.
Oh definitely worth reading, and drawing some sort of conclusions to apply to my own diving and for teaching students.

Not all users ramble however. If they can cite specific cases (research, reports, etc.), then there's learning to be had.
 
I'm not going to search through years of BSAC reports to validate your claim. So I will reject it unless I stumble across it. Looking at the 2019 report (page 67), there is an incident where a diver made the mistake of breathing from his pony first, but he lived.
Whilst the majority of those who’ve initially used their pony’s reg, thinking it was their main one, realise their mistake. There have been fatalities. These were not always novice divers, but ones with years of experience who hadn’t taken the time to retrain their subconscious they were carrying a pony. Some were solo diving i.e. agreed to meet up with their buddy on the shot line to maintain the impression of buddy diving.
 
These are cases of starting with the wrong reg. I’d need to startup my laptop or old iPad to find the fatalities in older reports. It is a sampling of a large number of divers doing a large number of dives. It indicates that people do make a mistake, as unbelievable as that may seem, due to the extra complications of more kit. The experience of users such as MikeWD might be ok but at scale people make mistakes. You want inexperienced people making those mistakes and not having the mental resilience, due to not being well used to the environment, to deal with the problem?

12/248 Nov 11
13/005 oct 12
14/191 Aug 2014
16/055 March 16
17/251 September 17
17/009 oct 16
19/130 June 2019
 
These are cases of starting with the wrong reg. I’d need to startup my laptop or old iPad to find the fatalities in older reports. It is a sampling of a large number of divers doing a large number of dives. It indicates that people do make a mistake, as unbelievable as that may seem, due to the extra complications of more kit. The experience of users such as MikeWD might be ok but at scale people make mistakes. You want inexperienced people making those mistakes and not having the mental resilience, due to not being well used to the environment, to deal with the problem?

12/248 Nov 11
13/005 oct 12
14/191 Aug 2014
16/055 March 16
17/251 September 17
17/009 oct 16
19/130 June 2019
Hey, I'm one part of the group (though unrecorded) of people who was breathing off the wrong reg. I was inexperienced, on the backwall of Molokini "group diving" (so on my own which is why I knew to bring a pony with me to Maui).

How many of those are fatalities? The 19/130 June 2019 isn't, as I did read that one. I will go back and read those as you have gotten more specific.

We all make a myriad of mistakes, typically more often early in our diving, but from time to time, we do make them (though I sure need to cut that out now that I'll be learning to dive closed circuit).
 
Hey, I'm one part of the group (though unrecorded) of people who was breathing off the wrong reg. I was inexperienced, on the backwall of Molokini "group diving" (so on my own which is why I knew to bring a pony with me to Maui).

How many of those are fatalities? The 19/130 June 2019 isn't, as I did read that one. I will go back and read those as you have gotten more specific.

We all make a myriad of mistakes, typically more often early in our diving, but from time to time, we do make them (though I sure need to cut that out now that I'll be learning to dive closed circuit).

These are not the fatalities, these are the obvious pony related mistakes from the reports currently on the BSAC web site. I have older ones on other machines. Edward also remembers there being fatalities. Do you really need a fatality to believe that it is a terrible idea for a novice diver to have a complicated bit of extra kit? A bunch of rapid ascents and particularly the failure to switch to back gas.

New divers are easily flustered by unexpected events. How someone deals with weird stuff is a good measure of comfort and ability. Someone with hundreds of dives will manage better than someone with five or ten. Someone dived up will probably manage better than someone coming back after a layoff. Adding unnecessary complications when less able is a mistake.
 
Do you really need a fatality to believe that it is a terrible idea for a novice diver to have a complicated bit of extra kit? A bunch of rapid ascents and particularly the failure to switch to back gas.

I need a bit more to say it is a bad idea, given that myself, @MikeWD, and probably thousands more have used them without killing ourselves. I just don't find it all that complicated, and my initial scuba training sucked. I do however handle stress well. Maybe that's the difference?

I do not consider a pony bottle an "unnecessary complication" or "complicated", but a valuable safety device. For those that think it is complicated, maybe diving isn't for them. A rebreather is complicated. But I don't think anything OC is complicated, not even sidemount.
 
I am new to scuba diving with only a couple dives under my belt. I am a little OCD and tend to pay attention to my gauge more than enjoying the dive as I am always worried about my pressure. I have a 13cf pony bottle. Would being a new diver and having the pony tank connected to my main tank for the piece of mind confuse me and be tougher for me starting out? When I started paramotoring, they recommended not flying with a reserve because it is more likely to accidentally deploy and cause more problems.


Be happy to have a pony, carry it and practice with it. I was you, last Sept. I met a bit of resistance from some people, and tons of inspiration and positive reactions from the rest. Sling it though. I would recommend diagonally across your chest, as it counter-balances itself. No need to worry about weight differential, because your tank is mounted on one side of your tank. Leave an octo on your rig and know how your hand needs to move to so you can recover your pony stage 2, and do it blind. If your pony is mounted to your tank, you will have to counterbalance it. You will also want to have an spg on your pony, and if the tank is right in front of you, a little 6" hose on the spg is all that is needed.
These are not the fatalities, these are the obvious pony related mistakes from the reports currently on the BSAC web site. I have older ones on other machines. Edward also remembers there being fatalities. Do you really need a fatality to believe that it is a terrible idea for a novice diver to have a complicated bit of extra kit? A bunch of rapid ascents and particularly the failure to switch to back gas.

New divers are easily flustered by unexpected events. How someone deals with weird stuff is a good measure of comfort and ability. Someone with hundreds of dives will manage better than someone with five or ten. Someone dived up will probably manage better than someone coming back after a layoff. Adding unnecessary complications when less able is a mistake.

Nothing complicated about slinging a pony, if it is slung, less likelihood of breathing off it by accident. Quite easy to carry actually, rather light.
 
I need a bit more to say it is a bad idea, given that myself, @MikeWD, and probably thousands more have used them without killing ourselves. I just don't find it all that complicated, and my initial scuba training sucked. I do however handle stress well. Maybe that's the difference?

I do not consider a pony bottle an "unnecessary complication" or "complicated", but a valuable safety device. For those that think it is complicated, maybe diving isn't for them. A rebreather is complicated. But I don't think anything OC is complicated, not even sidemount.

I'm basically in agreement.

As a general rule, I think divers should (1) practice basic skills with any equipment or configuration in a safe environment before trying it out in the wild. (2) It's also good to ask (for most anything scuba) if there are any precautions or risks to be aware of. I learned a few from this thread & a few from another thread I started.

My current preference is to sling (side-mount style) a 19 to 40cu pony, because it's by far the simplest, least tangled, etc. I basically clip on 2x d-rings, and go. The regulator is tucked in a bungee & SPG on a short-hose. It's also easy enough to turn on/off mid-dive, or even hand to another diver if absolutely necessary. It's also lightweight and compact enough I have (almost*) no excuses to not bring it on every dive. The "almost" exception is side-mount, since you have redundant air anyway.

Practice (swapping to pony, turn on/off air, and even feathering valve) has helped me be confident I could swap easily under pressure. More importantly, asking about redundant air sources has helped me pursue a cleaner setup. Had I not asked, I'd have back-mounted the pony, had extra hoses over my shoulder, and overall a more complicated and less flexible setup.
 
I am new to scuba diving with only a couple dives under my belt. I am a little OCD and tend to pay attention to my gauge more than enjoying the dive as I am always worried about my pressure. I have a 13cf pony bottle. Would being a new diver and having the pony tank connected to my main tank for the piece of mind confuse me and be tougher for me starting out? When I started paramotoring, they recommended not flying with a reserve because it is more likely to accidentally deploy and cause more problems.


I would recommend you sling your pony, diagonally across your chest
I'm basically in agreement.

As a general rule, I think divers should (1) practice basic skills with any equipment or configuration in a safe environment before trying it out in the wild. (2) It's also good to ask (for most anything scuba) if there are any precautions or risks to be aware of. I learned a few from this thread & a few from another thread I started.

My current preference is to sling (side-mount style) a 19 to 40cu pony, because it's by far the simplest, least tangled, etc. I basically clip on 2x d-rings, and go. The regulator is tucked in a bungee & SPG on a short-hose. It's also easy enough to turn on/off mid-dive, or even hand to another diver if absolutely necessary. It's also lightweight and compact enough I have (almost*) no excuses to not bring it on every dive. The "almost" exception is side-mount, since you have redundant air anyway.

Practice (swapping to pony, turn on/off air, and even feathering valve) has helped me be confident I could swap easily under pressure. More importantly, asking about redundant air sources has helped me pursue a cleaner setup. Had I not asked, I'd have back-mounted the pony, had extra hoses over my shoulder, and overall a more complicated and less flexible setup.


I started out slinging a 13cu pony on my left side. Then I moved it to diagonally, which eliminated the need to counterbalance it. I do however, turn the pony on, all the way, before I enter the water. It is live to go whenever I need it. Also practice switching to it blind.
 
I would recommend you sling your pony, diagonally across your chest

I started out slinging a 13cu pony on my left side. Then I moved it to diagonally, which eliminated the need to counterbalance it. I do however, turn the pony on, all the way, before I enter the water. It is live to go whenever I need it. Also practice switching to it blind.
I'll try both configurations. The "side-mount" style is just what I started with. I always have it on in the water, unless I'm practicing skills. Having a way to transfill helps a lot to keep the pony topped up, without having to constantly pay for fills.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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