Nitrogen narcosis

[Centrals]

.. Dealing with narcosis is about control and self awareness, and the ability to carry out the dive independently of others.

There is no other way other than knowing your ownself.

 

[ginti]

Were you diving air or nitrox?

Hi jomar, do you know that oxygen and nitrogen have the same narcotic power? In other words, there is no difference between nx and air about narcosis (there is a huge difference concerning deco, but that's another topic)

 

[Jack Hammer]

@Kay Dee
In my case task loading is when it became quite noticeable. Kind of like that feeling after a few drinks when fumbling the keys while missing the lock.

 

[FL-Jack]

I would be interested to know how many folks here who have said they have experinced significant or noticiable narcosis in say the 30m to 40m / 100ft to 130ft range where just diving with no task at hand but to just "have a look around" / regular dive so to speak.

I always found that having a task to perform, specifically still photograpy - while not quite as much with video is it is more often just point, press the 'go' button, and shoot - helped 'focus the mind'. That is, 'manual settings' u/w still photography requires conscious thought to adjust the settings of both camera and flash units at times - somtimes as often as between shots as the situations one was photgraphing changed during the dive / different angles of the same photo - which helped focus the mind and by doing so helped keep narcosis at bay. And repeated exposure to such task focusing demands / mental calculations - as opposed to / not to be confused with task fixation as it were - served me in good stead when I didnt have a camera in hand. I can't speak for others but that was certainly the case for me even consderably deeper.

But again, I am not reccomending deep air diving, just pointing out that one shoe does not fit all with regards narcosis, but does or did fit quite a few prior to trimix and / or CCRs becoming more available / popular.

Anyway, just my two cents worth (recently reduced to one by inflation).

I have often wondered this myself. I have been nearly twice the recreational limits many times in the past and have never once felt what people traditionally describe as being narked. I am always hyper focused on the task at hand and would never be down that deep just to have a look around though.

This thread has me wanting to do some cognitive tests on the surface and at the recreational limit to find out if I am actually impaired and don't realize it of if I have built up a tolerance to narcosis after decades of nitrogen abuse.

BTW: Video is just as bad as photos as I am always adjusting my lights to get the colors right in a very dynamic, ever changing environment!

 

[FL-Jack]

Dunno about the "weird" part but I'm normally unable "to recall much of the dive" later: I don't try memorize every second so I only retain the highlights. And photographs. The rest of it is, we swam around looking at pretty fishes and corals and feeling good, business as usual.

So you have never seen someone trying to take off their mask or pull out their regulator after chasing imaginary fish around for five minutes I take it... Weird behavior underwater comes in many forms and usually involves anything but swimming along looking at all the pretty stuff.

I do remember all my dives in pretty sharp detail. I originally started shooting video since so many people wanted to dispute what I said happened or claimed I saw on a dive.

 

[boulderjohn]

I would be interested to know how many folks here who have said they have experinced significant or noticiable narcosis in say the 30m to 40m / 100ft to 130ft range where just diving with no task at hand but to just "have a look around" / regular dive so to speak.

I always found that having a task to perform, specifically still photograpy - while not quite as much with video is it is more often just point, press the 'go' button, and shoot - helped 'focus the mind'. That is, 'manual settings' u/w still photography requires conscious thought to adjust the settings of both camera and flash units at times - somtimes as often as between shots as the situations one was photgraphing changed during the dive / different angles of the same photo - which helped focus the mind and by doing so helped keep narcosis at bay. And repeated exposure to such task focusing demands / mental calculations - as opposed to / not to be confused with task fixation as it were - served me in good stead when I didnt have a camera in hand. I can't speak for others but that was certainly the case for me even consderably deeper.

But again, I am not reccomending deep air diving, just pointing out that one shoe does not fit all with regards narcosis, but does or did fit quite a few prior to trimix and / or CCRs becoming more available / popular.

Anyway, just my two cents worth (recently reduced to one by inflation).

I did almost all of my cave certification training in the 30m/100 foot range, breathing nitrox. I honestly felt I was a bit on the stupider side of normal on every dive.

My most clear case of narcosis was at that depth, too. I was with a buddy and a guide in the engine room of a wreck in Truk Lagoon. I was wearing conventional scuba gear, with the big loopy hose to the primary and the alternate hose running under the right arm. (I only had about 300 dives at that point, and I had no tech training yet.) The guide led us through a hole in a wall, and I noticed a broken pipe sticking down from the top right. It would be easy to snag the regulator hose on that, I noted. Then my buddy went through and, sure enough, he snagged his regulator hose, pulled it down, and went through. I then entered the hole and--you guessed it--snagged my regulator hose. When I felt it snag, I wondered which hose I had snagged. Which hose should I reach for to free myself? Should I pull that hose up or down? I could hear the guide laughing through his regulator, and I realized that these were very easy questions, and I should know the answers. I concluded that I must be narced, and at that point I remembered and pulled the regulator hose down.

 

[boulderjohn]

So you have never seen someone trying to take off their mask or pull out their regulator after chasing imaginary fish around for five minutes I take it... Weird behavior underwater comes in many forms and usually involves anything but swimming along looking at all the pretty stuff.

I have done a lot of air/nitrox dives in the 40-50m/130-165 foot range over the years, including as a TDI and PADI instructor doing the beginning tech classes before the students are allowed to use trimix. I have never seen anyone else show visible signs of narcosis on those dives. Many of my students in those classes were apprehensive about narcosis before those, but afterwards, 100% said they felt fine. I have already reported the few times I was narced enough to notice.

On my first dive as a TDI trimix student, my instructor had me dive trimix while he dived air so that we could exchange regulators for a few minutes and experience the difference. I didn't notice a thing, but he said it made a big difference for him.

As I have said several times, I think the effects are quite variable from person to person and from dive to dive. I have never, ever seen anyone have any of those famous outrageous effects. If I am deeper than 100 feet, I am intellectually aware that I am likely impaired to some degree--I assume I am narced to some extent. I don't feel it, though.

 

[dmaziuk]

So you have never seen someone trying to take off their mask or pull out their regulator after chasing imaginary fish around for five minutes I take it... Weird behavior underwater comes in many forms and usually involves anything but swimming along looking at all the pretty stuff.

No, and what does this nave to do with me not memorizing all my dives in excruciatingly clear detail?

 

[shurite7]

How I became aware of narcosis was during my trimix course. During the deep dive on air to 160 feet I felt fine. The instructor and assistant said my buddy and I were narced based off of our responses to his communications with us, yet I felt in total control. The next day we went down to the same spot on trimix and that is when I realized how much I didn’t see, especially small hazards. Since then I have tried to be aware of it, but in most cases when below 100 feet on a recreational dive I don’t notice it or perhaps I wasn’t narced and every once in a while the unusual feeling.

I too have heard the strange stories of narcosis, but have not witnessed anything major.

 

[FL-Jack]

As I have said several times, I think the effects are quite variable from person to person and from dive to dive. I have never, ever seen anyone have any of those famous outrageous effects. If I am deeper than 100 feet, I am intellectually aware that I am likely impaired to some degree--I assume I am narced to some extent. I don't feel it, though.

I stopped a fellow from continuing to follow imaginary fish down at 172ft in Kosrae. In his defense, it was so clear I could actually see the captain looking over the side of the boat down at us. Dude was pretty combative at depth and I almost let him go find Poseidon. Topside he very freaked out by the incident and I doubt he will ever go beyond 60' again.

In Rangiroa at 155', I watched a lady whip out an iPhone in a plastic bag case and start taking selfies. She was fixing her hair and on the verge of pulling off her mask when a guide grabbed her and took her up. It was seriously bizarre. She had almost no memory of the events.

OTOH, I filmed and dove with a bunch of fish collectors on air working at 215' in Micronesia and they didn't have an issue with it at all. They had some terrifying stories about people that did though.

If anyone ever does a comprehensive study on the effects of nitrogen narcosis I would most certainly want to participate.

BTW: I think I jabbed myself in the back with that same pipe in Truk Jan/20!! No one displayed any signs of narcosis on any of the dives I did there or in Palau.