Eric Sedletzky
Contributor
Just curious, did the shop switch to SSI?
It sounds suspiciously like an SSI/Mares move.
Handling LDS fee?
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It sounds suspiciously like an SSI/Mares move.
Eric Sedletzky
Contributor
All of what I’ve been reading has given me a few thoughts.
Things are changing in retail, not only on diving but in almost everything. The internet and insta-information changed the world. How people and businesses will deal with all this in the future is anyone’s best guess, the the fact remains that they will have no choice but to deal with it in some way.
The owners of dive shops are not the gate keepers to the sport any more. Many who at one time had an overlord mentality are really struggling with this. The dive shop at one time is where you went for everything including gear, instruction, buddies, local conditions, advice on the beat gear, etc. the shop was the professional know everything entity that you trusted because there was no other source.
The the internet came and blew that whole model out the window.
I think things will continue to settle and people involved in the industry in some form will either find a place within this new ever changing structure or leave. Diving and so many other things will have to get used to a more fluid existence where nothing is as permanent and solid (for better or worse) than it was in the past. perhaps more certifications will be issued at vacation spots because of volume and infrastructure than locally. Specialty education such as cave and wreck training might be done locally but you would be able to find an instructor on the internet that runs an independant school. You will use the internet and resources such as here to find and talk about who is the best, where to go, etc.
There never was a DIY community like there is now.
Back in the dark ages of dive gatekeepers DIY would have not been an option for those seeking it out.
I could also see that diving may become more privatized or tribal for lack of a better word. What I mean by this is since the generic LDS may become scarce, the sport may continue on in a more private form such as dive clubs and buddy groups. Some may even have a co-op style structure where you pay dues and have access to air fills that might be done at a members house.
Diving is not going to stop, but a lot about it will change.
Think about it, 30 years ago we would not have been on scubaboard talking about this with people all over the world in real time.
Even with the decline in the LDS, I wouldn’t trade this new world of information for anything.
The internet has done nothing but help me.
If you want to know the core of what’s killing dive shops, it’s information.
Things are changing in retail, not only on diving but in almost everything. The internet and insta-information changed the world. How people and businesses will deal with all this in the future is anyone’s best guess, the the fact remains that they will have no choice but to deal with it in some way.
The owners of dive shops are not the gate keepers to the sport any more. Many who at one time had an overlord mentality are really struggling with this. The dive shop at one time is where you went for everything including gear, instruction, buddies, local conditions, advice on the beat gear, etc. the shop was the professional know everything entity that you trusted because there was no other source.
The the internet came and blew that whole model out the window.
I think things will continue to settle and people involved in the industry in some form will either find a place within this new ever changing structure or leave. Diving and so many other things will have to get used to a more fluid existence where nothing is as permanent and solid (for better or worse) than it was in the past. perhaps more certifications will be issued at vacation spots because of volume and infrastructure than locally. Specialty education such as cave and wreck training might be done locally but you would be able to find an instructor on the internet that runs an independant school. You will use the internet and resources such as here to find and talk about who is the best, where to go, etc.
There never was a DIY community like there is now.
Back in the dark ages of dive gatekeepers DIY would have not been an option for those seeking it out.
I could also see that diving may become more privatized or tribal for lack of a better word. What I mean by this is since the generic LDS may become scarce, the sport may continue on in a more private form such as dive clubs and buddy groups. Some may even have a co-op style structure where you pay dues and have access to air fills that might be done at a members house.
Diving is not going to stop, but a lot about it will change.
Think about it, 30 years ago we would not have been on scubaboard talking about this with people all over the world in real time.
Even with the decline in the LDS, I wouldn’t trade this new world of information for anything.
The internet has done nothing but help me.
If you want to know the core of what’s killing dive shops, it’s information.
Yes on the SSI part, but it was before Mares.
The same is true in many other retail businesses. Many shops have employees who are barely competent. In the early days of home computing, I went into a store specializing in it and realized within 2 minutes of talking to the expert help that I knew more than he did. After a few minutes on YouTube, you will know more about that home project you are working on than whoever you get help from at Home Depot.
In the case of one store I know well, the owner decries the fact that he has high staff turnover and is constantly having to retrain new people. He apparently does not see a connection to his paying minimum wage with no health coverage while he tries to figure out how to invest his excess profits each year. One skilled dive shop employee I know quit because he realized that with the shop's pay scale, he would never be able to go beyond the poverty line.
Eric Sedletzky
Contributor
Unfortunately this is the case in so many lines of work now. Both my daughter and son in law are in logistics (UPS and USPS) and they are working 14 hour days each because they won’t hire new employees. The US post office is an absolute mess and UPS is not much better. Both overworked and underpaid. The money gets wasted on the higher ups.
I just saw a news article about Amazon employees having to pee in plastic bottles because they are not allowed to use the bathroom unless it’s break time. All this plus minimum wage and no medical because Bezos isn’t rich enough, even though he’s the richest man in the world. I swear it’s a mental disease.
Whether it true or not or fake news I don’t know, but I think there is at least some truth to it. I had a nephew-in-law that worked at Amazon and he said it was a total meat grinder.
The health insurance thing drives me nuts. I’ve owned a dozen companies. In every instance i ask, do you want a raise or do you want health insurance. No one ever wants health insurance until something terrible happens, the they’re like, “man, why don’t we have health insurance.
This year, or next, everyone is getting health insurance whether they like it or not.
This year, or next, everyone is getting health insurance whether they like it or not.
stretchthepenn
Contributor
I think you've hit the nail on the head.
Seems reasonable on the instructor side, doesn't seem like it would be enough to pay for a shop, especially covering all of the rental gear.
I am guessing with you being in Florida, volume makes up for a large part that I'm not seeing.
wow this is a big topic. fyi....i did not read all 17 pages of responses. i am bored but not that bored and am waiting for my prime rib to cook so here goes.....
back in the day, when dinosaurs roamed the earth and the interwebz was nothing but a dream, we had no choice (unless we traveled somewhere) but to buy from our local dealers.
no offense to my local dealer (who is now my employer) but i think the prices were outrageous. now in fairness, perhaps that was the norm back then. i had nothing to compare it to as they were the only shop in town.
fast forward to modern day.....
it was required i purchase a set of regs from the store in order to intern there and work as an employee. i paid more than double what i could have gotten it for out of the u.s. but i considered that the price of admission.
since then i have purchased other gear from our store, but certainly not all. even with my employee discount, at times, some items are still a lot cheaper from another source. sometimes items i need / want just are not avail through my shop.
my cost is supposed to be X% over cost. i figure if i can find an item online and buy it for X, my store could also buy that same item, mark it up X% and sell it to me. if they do not want to do it, that is on them. why should i be penalized for that.
example....i needed two tank valves. my cost thru my store was $115 each. i found valves (different brand but still good quality) for $50 each. the store could have bought those same valves and sold them to me for $60 or $70. but they chose not to. sorry, but i am not paying 115 for something i can get for 50.
as a customer (and not an employee) i feel i do not owe any business anything. period ! sure it is nice if i can find what i need locally and support a local store. but i am not going to pay more than i have to. it is their job to earn my loyalty and my money.
that said, i think it only makes sense to at least give your local shop a chance to earn your business. if they cannot match a price (or at least come close enough), perhaps they can offer you something else to make it worth the extra money.
if it was regs, maybe they can offer free service for the first year or two. if it was a tank, perhaps they could do some free VIP's, or offer free / discounted fills. the point is, many local shops have the means to make it worth it to you, but do not put any effort in to coming up with ways to do that. and if that is the case, then i would take your money else where.
another possible problem buying locally may be returning items. there are larger retailers out there that offer free returns on items that do not fit for example. where as some smaller local shops may not be able to afford to offer this service. so if i order a $2000 dry suit, and it does not fit. now what ? am i supposed to just eat the 2000 ? perhaps i could sell it. but i would certainly have to take some sort of loss. so how do you justify that kind of risk ?
for me to continue diving it has to be affordable. i cannot shell out thousands of dollars for gear for the 50 dives a year i do. i try to buy all my gear for a price i know i can sell for what i paid for it, or very close. and so far i have been able to do that. although it does take some effort on my part.
so i agree we all should support our local shops when we can. but i do not think it should mean being taken advantage of because of that loyalty.
back in the day, when dinosaurs roamed the earth and the interwebz was nothing but a dream, we had no choice (unless we traveled somewhere) but to buy from our local dealers.
no offense to my local dealer (who is now my employer) but i think the prices were outrageous. now in fairness, perhaps that was the norm back then. i had nothing to compare it to as they were the only shop in town.
fast forward to modern day.....
it was required i purchase a set of regs from the store in order to intern there and work as an employee. i paid more than double what i could have gotten it for out of the u.s. but i considered that the price of admission.
since then i have purchased other gear from our store, but certainly not all. even with my employee discount, at times, some items are still a lot cheaper from another source. sometimes items i need / want just are not avail through my shop.
my cost is supposed to be X% over cost. i figure if i can find an item online and buy it for X, my store could also buy that same item, mark it up X% and sell it to me. if they do not want to do it, that is on them. why should i be penalized for that.
example....i needed two tank valves. my cost thru my store was $115 each. i found valves (different brand but still good quality) for $50 each. the store could have bought those same valves and sold them to me for $60 or $70. but they chose not to. sorry, but i am not paying 115 for something i can get for 50.
as a customer (and not an employee) i feel i do not owe any business anything. period ! sure it is nice if i can find what i need locally and support a local store. but i am not going to pay more than i have to. it is their job to earn my loyalty and my money.
that said, i think it only makes sense to at least give your local shop a chance to earn your business. if they cannot match a price (or at least come close enough), perhaps they can offer you something else to make it worth the extra money.
if it was regs, maybe they can offer free service for the first year or two. if it was a tank, perhaps they could do some free VIP's, or offer free / discounted fills. the point is, many local shops have the means to make it worth it to you, but do not put any effort in to coming up with ways to do that. and if that is the case, then i would take your money else where.
another possible problem buying locally may be returning items. there are larger retailers out there that offer free returns on items that do not fit for example. where as some smaller local shops may not be able to afford to offer this service. so if i order a $2000 dry suit, and it does not fit. now what ? am i supposed to just eat the 2000 ? perhaps i could sell it. but i would certainly have to take some sort of loss. so how do you justify that kind of risk ?
for me to continue diving it has to be affordable. i cannot shell out thousands of dollars for gear for the 50 dives a year i do. i try to buy all my gear for a price i know i can sell for what i paid for it, or very close. and so far i have been able to do that. although it does take some effort on my part.
so i agree we all should support our local shops when we can. but i do not think it should mean being taken advantage of because of that loyalty.
Eric Sedletzky
Contributor
I’m not into hitting up my LDS or any dive shop for deals to try and get close to internet pricing. To me it’s just weird trying to work and chisel somebody like people used to do to me when I sold cars. It puts a wedge into the relationship. It makes me feel like some kind of cheap skate or kinker.
They may do it after a lot of eye rolling and sighing, and the awkwardness of it all, it can get weird.
I shouldn’t have to have to work someone for better pricing. They need to do their homework and find out what stuff sells for and figure out a way to become competitive. I see a price and I figure that’s the price. If somethings on sale, great! That’s a bunus.
I prefer no haggle pricing, a lot easier and less stressful for everyone involved.
They may do it after a lot of eye rolling and sighing, and the awkwardness of it all, it can get weird.
I shouldn’t have to have to work someone for better pricing. They need to do their homework and find out what stuff sells for and figure out a way to become competitive. I see a price and I figure that’s the price. If somethings on sale, great! That’s a bunus.
I prefer no haggle pricing, a lot easier and less stressful for everyone involved.
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