Is UTD still a "fringe" organization?

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I was taught how to dive SM properly by a GUE IE but no need for a card. SM is a tool for exploration but a horrible way for newer cave divers to learn to cave dive. It adds too many little potential mistakes. I must confess it is also a tool for old guys who want to be able to walk after 30+ hours of bottom time during a fun week in Mexico.

(Not wishing to pick a fight here!)

Why do you think sidemount isn't good to learn to cave dive? Once over the minor faff to configure and adjust your kit, sidemount's every bit as easy as backmount and a lot more flexible as well. Arguably safer too as everything's in front of you and you've true redundancy. Then there's the trim from any angle... sublime.
 
  • There are more little things you have to do to manage gas that compound significantly if you have any kind of issue. Newer divers are more likely to cause a total silt out etc. no need to add that extra risk of managing gas.
  • New cavers have no business being in passages that need side mount
  • Easier to make a gas management mistake. Again something that is compounded with Newer divers.
  • Trim isn’t as easy to learn. Better to be squared away on backmount before you add the fiddly stuff.
  • Stages are a bigger hassle and are much easier to learn in backmount
  • It is used as a crutch/ excuse to not have proper backmount valve management skills.
  • You simply can’t carry as many stages so some dives demand backmount anyway therefore you need to have solid fundamentals in both.
  • It is useless from a boat no matter how much silliness you contrive to make it possible.
  • Just because it is trendy doesn’t make it the best tool. It was all the rage in Mexico 25 years ago and died out some because back mount was more efficient. It has made a big comeback recently because it is an in water fix for mostly surface concerns or skills issues with valves in many cases. Not the best of reasons.
  • It doesn’t build off of single tank muscle memory which most divers have more of making it less ingrained.
Those aren’t even the top ten reasons just the first that came to mind.
 
  • There are more little things you have to do to manage gas that compound significantly if you have any kind of issue. Newer divers are more likely to cause a total silt out etc. no need to add that extra risk of managing gas.
  • New cavers have no business being in passages that need side mount
  • Easier to make a gas management mistake. Again something that is compounded with Newer divers.
  • Trim isn’t as easy to learn. Better to be squared away on backmount before you add the fiddly stuff.
  • Stages are a bigger hassle and are much easier to learn in backmount
  • It is used as a crutch/ excuse to not have proper backmount valve management skills.
  • You simply can’t carry as many stages so some dives demand backmount anyway therefore you need to have solid fundamentals in both.
  • It is useless from a boat no matter how much silliness you contrive to make it possible.
  • Just because it is trendy doesn’t make it the best tool. It was all the rage in Mexico 25 years ago and died out some because back mount was more efficient. It has made a big comeback recently because it is an in water fix for mostly surface concerns or skills issues with valves in many cases. Not the best of reasons.
  • It doesn’t build off of single tank muscle memory which most divers have more of making it less ingrained.
Those aren’t even the top ten reasons just the first that came to mind.

My knees and sciatica tell your list to take a flying leap! :D
 
  • There are more little things you have to do to manage gas that compound significantly if you have any kind of issue. Newer divers are more likely to cause a total silt out etc. no need to add that extra risk of managing gas.
  • New cavers have no business being in passages that need side mount
  • Easier to make a gas management mistake. Again something that is compounded with Newer divers.
  • Trim isn’t as easy to learn. Better to be squared away on backmount before you add the fiddly stuff.
  • Stages are a bigger hassle and are much easier to learn in backmount
  • It is used as a crutch/ excuse to not have proper backmount valve management skills.
  • You simply can’t carry as many stages so some dives demand backmount anyway therefore you need to have solid fundamentals in both.
  • It is useless from a boat no matter how much silliness you contrive to make it possible.
  • Just because it is trendy doesn’t make it the best tool. It was all the rage in Mexico 25 years ago and died out some because back mount was more efficient. It has made a big comeback recently because it is an in water fix for mostly surface concerns or skills issues with valves in many cases. Not the best of reasons.
  • It doesn’t build off of single tank muscle memory which most divers have more of making it less ingrained.
Those aren’t even the top ten reasons just the first that came to mind.

Could use a similar list for backmount; but that's way too off topic.

All diving benefits from sorted core skills: buoyancy, trim, finning. This should be well sorted before they're allowed near a cave; certainly way before they're allowed out of the cavern zone.

As someone happy in sidemount, backmount and rebreather I'd put backmount last on my preference list. If there's any humping to do, I really don't want it all in one heavy fragile lump on my back. Whilst the rebreather's heavy, it's less than backmount and much less with the correct cylinder choices.

Sidemount comes into its own when humping tins around. One at a time, or both together clipped to the harness or in a rope bag. The best thing with sidemount is the look of envy on the boats whilst kitting up ;-) TBH it's easy enough with a little practice, a lot easier if in warm-water kit. Generally give up the bench space to the backmounters/CCRs and kit up standing up. Sidemount's most definitely my go-to for solo OC diving and shore diving.

I'll concede that stages are a little harder in sidemount as there's more tins competing for the same D-rings. Steve Martin et al do make it look so easy with 2 sidemounted cylinders and 4 ali80s. Arguably that kind of diving should be done with a rebreather.

I'm so happy with sidemount that I bungee my bailouts back when on a rebreather. Want streamlined and controlled stages.
 
UTD is an abbreviation of the original name
And of the current name.
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I'm intrigued to hear more about the UTD 3.0 Ratio Deco sounds like an interesting development to reflect current deco theory.
 
Would like to ask about the "unified" and "team" aspect of UTD...

Firstly the "unified". Is conformity to equipment standards considered to be more important than utilising the correct equipment configuration for the 'mission'? Thinking back to the old bigoted days of DIR, insisting that you have to all have exactly the same config regardless. A good example is not allowing a D-ring on the RH waist, mandating backmount where sidemount would be appropriate (for many reasons). Insisting that computers are in gauge mode, etc. There's many places where hybrid solutions would be appropriate, such as sidemounting bailout cylinders to keep them properly streamlined and in control, especially when penetrating wrecks or tighter caves. What about gasses? Standard gasses are fine but horrendously expensive -- 25/25 for a 25m/80' dive?

Secondly the "team" element which results in less independent thought or development. A lot of places one dives requires solo mentalities, such as penetrations within shipwrecks and restrictions within caves. Could the team mentality encourage 'group think' and suppress independent thought?

Have to question using ratio deco. Why? We now have Shearwater computers which give a far better calculation of the deco curve for the specifics of the profile. Diving with two of them means redundancy. Three is even better. ZHL16 works and is widely adopted for planning, etc.


I’ll give this a shot.....

Equipment standard vs mission specific.
There is a base of equipment standards (backplate, wing, single piece harness etc). But generally if there is a mod or placement of gear, as long as it’s well thought out and makes sense, no problem. The “thinking” diver is a core aspect.

This leads to the second part, “team” aspect.

Each diver has to have individual and team skills. Simple things like situational awareness, detailed gas planning, line use etc, are stressed. Then the team member abilities are required, rock bottom calculations, gas matching, team formation, reactions and duties during the dive.

One rigid requirement is standard gases.......helium, although costly in some areas, is to be used at the correct depths. It’s viewed as a safety aspect, you’ll find many progressive agencies adopting this view.

Ratio Deco....and min Deco

RD is definitely a topic of much debate.....it’s utilized for tech level courses but available to any level that wish to increase their knowledge base.
The exclusion of dive computers is, in my opinion, a bit of a hold out from some time ago when it was stressed that the diver should, with ease, be able to plan and control the dive no matter the circumstances. This covered the possibility of computer availability and failures. It’s more common than not to see a Shearwater on the wrist of a UTD diver now days......

I see it now as a fantastic training tool to solidify decompression theory and comprehensive knowledge of planning a dive and being able to safely change the plan on the fly if required.
The newest version of RD 3.0 is now rolling out, there’s a great podcast with Dr Mitchell and Ratio Deco, well worth a listen. I’m not deeply knowledgeable in 3.0 but will in time tackle it.

There are many UTD oriented communities around the world as well as cave and wreck explorations going on but not as abundant as some of the 400+ agencies out there. Fortunately, most UTD trained divers can easily fit in with GUE divers due to very similar skill sets. Locally, I dive with mostly GUE divers as they were established before UTD came on board. A very fun, friendly and inclusive group of active divers.

I hope this answers a few of the questions......

Jay
 
All this team diving seems to attract a certain type of person, as solo diving mentality attracts others. Once over the novice/intermediate learning phase, just going diving's more important than spending diving time in a quarry practising.

I used to use a slide rule for calculations. The argument for slide rules was that you'd have a better feeling for the calculation as you'd think about the numbers approximately first to get the magnitude; then you'd refine it with the slide rule.

Computers don't think for you, but they do their single job exceedingly well. You need a different approach to a computer to prevent GIGO - Garbage In = Garbage Out. So a dive computer you check and double check that the gasses programmed in to the computerS match that written on the tape on your "back" and that you do switching. That aside, they're far more reliable, accurate and simpler for a diver to handle.

I can't find my slide rule. I still do a quick approximation of the result to check with the computer. In the same way I have a bunch of approximations for diving: 45m/160' = 1:1, 60m/200' = 1:2, etc. Even approximating shallow dives: 32% at 30m/100' = 30mins. Each 3m shallower = +10mins. The rest is deco at 1:1. But it's the numbers on my computerS which count.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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