Compressor Newb

[Sub100]

@bakodiver - yes I hear you on this. I will be using containers with side opening doors so the whole of one side of he container can be opened - so that helps with air flow and cooling. It seems the only way to go about it is to fill at night and early morning as you say.

Still not sure about a bank though. It seems to me the better compressor setup is a 4 stage compressor, turning slowly, running for one long contiguous run filling an air bank at night or very early morning (start at 4am) to keep stop/starts to a minimum and to use a large air bank to keep temperature down as the fill progresses..... is that about right?

I am not saying its the most economical or the safest setup by any means, but purely from a technical standpoint of achieving the longest compressor life and the lowest cost of consumables it seems that is the most optimal setup. Please tell me why its not or how I am getting it wrong because I really want to understand this well.

Another element to this - I didnt want to get into this just yet as we are discussing so many other aspects - what about an air bank in a boat? Is that doable or really not an option? Trying to carry 15 or 20 diving cylinders is going to be difficult because of the sheer amount of things we need to carry when we go up the lake for a week. However it may be crazy dangerous to have an air bank in a boat?

Its almost like the gods conspired against us to keep us out of the water given how difficult, costly and time consuming this is!

 

[GF99/99]

@bakodiver - yes I hear you on this. I will be using containers with side opening doors so the whole of one side of he container can be opened - so that helps with air flow and cooling. It seems the only way to go about it is to fill at night and early morning as you say.

Still not sure about a bank though. It seems to me the better compressor setup is a 4 stage compressor, turning slowly, running for one long contiguous run filling an air bank at night or very early morning (start at 4am) to keep stop/starts to a minimum and to use a large air bank to keep temperature down as the fill progresses..... is that about right?

I am not saying its the most economical or the safest setup by any means, but purely from a technical standpoint of achieving the longest compressor life and the lowest cost of consumables it seems that is the most optimal setup. Please tell me why its not or how I am getting it wrong because I really want to understand this well.

Another element to this - I didnt want to get into this just yet as we are discussing so many other aspects - what about an air bank in a boat? Is that doable or really not an option? Trying to carry 15 or 20 diving cylinders is going to be difficult because of the sheer amount of things we need to carry when we go up the lake for a week. However it may be crazy dangerous to have an air bank in a boat?

Its almost like the gods conspired against us to keep us out of the water given how difficult, costly and time consuming this is!

I know you have your heart set on a massive air bank and thats great if you want that and have the money to spend on it I say go for it. Im sure your local Bauer dealer will be jumping up in joy to take your business for this setup. And if you want one on your boat go for it, yes you can do this also if you have the money and space on your boat. This is essentially want commercial dive boats do.

But like my self and many other have told you this is not required for your application. Think about it when you go to any major dive store and you tell them you want to fill tanks guess what they sell you a compressor not an air bank. There might be a reason for this. So yes next you tell them you have power issues well guess what lots of other people do so the compressor companies have already thought of that. They make gasoline or diesel driven compressors. So next you tell them you live in the tropics and its hot and humid. There is a solution for that to they make refrigerated compressed air dryer system these chill your air down to about 5 deg C and take almost all the moisture out. These will also extend you filter life 3-4 times. B-KOOL refrigeration dryer for high-pressure air and gas treatment
The other hint for you that maybe an air bank is not the best for you is next time you take a diving holiday look in the dive centers compressor room. Especially in remote tropical dive destinations with power cuts and hot climate, none of the dive centers have air banks they just fill there tanks direct from compressor and they are filling A LOT more tanks than you are. Might be a reason for this...
I use to live on a small tropical island in Indonesia basically right on the equator (very not very humid). The island had about 12 dive centers on it sometime 2-3 power cuts a week. I have several friends that own or manage dive centers and none of them had air banks. During high season they would do up to 100 tanks a day. This far more than you will ever do and yet a diving business can mange to do this only off of compressors and not air bank.

Lastly you keep mentioning you want a booster well these are compressed air driven (yes they do make electric ones but now you back to the power problem and electric ones a very hard to come by) So to run your booster your going to need to hook up your dive tank to it and booster use a TON of are to drive them so you will need your compressor to keep filling tanks to run you booster.

But really the best thing to do is contact your Bauer deal and ask them for advice.
I think other mentioned it I would just buy a petrol Mariner 320 or a PE300
MARINER breathing air compressor, diving, ship compressor, H2S compressor, 320 l/min, up to 420 bar
PE-TE/PE-TB breathing air compressor, POSEIDON EDITION, diving, ship, Poseidon compressor, Draeger
Or if you really have all that cash burning a hole in your pocket pick up one of these KAP-DAH breathing air compressor, ship, diving, fire service, compressor for in-vehicle applications

 

[Sub100]

Hi Marsh,

Really value your input.

No - my heart is not set on an air bank at all. I am just trying to understand the options and how they work. I am interested in putting together a well designed system that is going to serve me well years into the future. While I do have a budget it is not big enough for everything I would like. So If I can cut the air bank out well and good. What I am interested in is the right balance of technical goodness/reliability/economy - not having endless compressor problems because I totally under estimated what it takes to do a dive air system and worked a small system too hard. I am just trying to do my due diligence before I leap in any direction. We have a saying out here that has served me well - 2 is one, 1 is none. Some sort of back up system would be nice....that is, use a compressor for an air bank so that there is an air bank of air in reserve for when the compressor goes down (for short time so things dont come to a total halt while sorting out the compressor), but I do get this most likely does not apply to you in places where things are available. If you need a compressor part you can probably get it overnight.... I am looking at weeks to months to get parts in. Maybe a mid size compressor and a small compressor make more sense then a mid size compressor and air bank? IDK, hence asking for advice.

But I am by no means set on having an air bank for the sake of an air bank - it has to make sense to me in my circumstances. There are lots of other things that need money, so if I can get out of an air bank well and good. All I am doing now is researching why or why not. I have no idea on what they cost so once I know that I may never mention the words "air bank" ever again lol. However technically they seem to make sense - 4 stage compressor, running slowly, filling a large air bank so its one long run. It seems from my reading that technically this does make sense but it may not make any sense from a cost perspective.

Petrol or diesel is fine except that we often have none in the small town where I am - its not uncommon to go to the filling station and be told the next delivery is expected in 2 weeks! Store it you say....hahahah yeah sure. If you can figure out a way to stop theft in Africa please let me know. We can store a little - 50 or 100 liters but beyond that I would have to have security on it. That same 50 or 100 liters would be for my car/boat too. Not impossible but not as easy as you may think. I try to keep the car full all the time so I dont get caught when I want to drive out to the capital. Boat trips are always governed by the fuel situation in town at the filling station - sometimes we go on the water other times we cant and we sit and wait for fuel to arrive. Its hard to believe I know.....I also got a sharp shock about the place when I first came out here. You just cant believe it could be like that...but it is. I prefer to stay on electric to be honest and either have an air bank on the boat or just buy lots of cylinders and deal with it.

I dont "WANT" a booster..... I am asking if I need one.

No cash burning a hole in my pocket here at all. After nearly 25 years out here in the bush in Africa I have learnt to be realistic about what things cost BY TIME THEY ARE HERE in country, duty and VAT paid plus transport over thousands of kilometers of African roads. I also did not get when I first came here...Africa is hellish expensive!

Marsh thank you very much for your insights - it is much appreciated. A lot to learn for sure but I am on my way now thanks to you guys.

 

[GF99/99]

Hi Marsh,

Really value your input.

No - my heart is not set on an air bank at all. I am just trying to understand the options and how they work. I am interested in putting together a well designed system that is going to serve me well years into the future. While I do have a budget it is not big enough for everything I would like. So If I can cut the air bank out well and good. What I am interested in is the right balance of technical goodness/reliability/economy - not having endless compressor problems because I totally under estimated what it takes to do a dive air system and worked a small system too hard. I am just trying to do my due diligence before I leap in any direction. We have a saying out here that has served me well - 2 is one, 1 is none. Some sort of back up system would be nice....thats one use for an air bank (for short time so things dont come to a total halt while sorting out the compressor), that I get does not apply to you in places where things are available. Maybe a mid size compressor and a small compressor make more sense then a mid size compressor and air bank? IDK, hence asking for advice.

But I am by no means set on having an air bank for the sake of an air bank - it has to make sense to me in my circumstances. There are lots of other things that need money, so if I can get out of an air bank well and good. All I am doing now is researching why or why not. I have no idea on what they cost so once I know that I may never mention the words "air bank" ever again lol. However technically the seem to make sense - 4 stage compressor, running slowly, filling a large air bank so its one long run. It seems from my reading that technically this does make sense but it may not make any sense from a cost perspective.

Petrol or diesel is fine except that we often have none in the small town where I am - its not uncommon to go to the filling station and be told the next delivery is expected in 2 weeks! Store it you say....hahahah yeah sure. If you can figure out a way to stop theft in Africa please let me know. We can store a little - 50 or 100 liters but beyond that I would have to have security on it. That same 50 or 100 liters would be for my car/boat too. Not impossible but not as easy as you may think. I try to keep the car full all the time so I dont get caught when I want to drive out to the capital. Boat trips are always governed by the fuel situation in town at the filling station - sometimes we go on the water other times we cant and we sit and wait for fuel to arrive. Its hard to believe I know.....I also got a sharp shock about the place when I first came out here. You just cant believe it could be like that...but it is. I prefer to stay on electric to be honest and either have an air bank on the boat or just buy lots of cylinders and deal with it.

I dont "WANT" a booster..... I am asking if I need one.

No cash burning a hole in my pocket here at all. After nearly 25 years out here in the bush in Africa I have learnt to be realistic about what things cost BY TIME THEY ARE HERE in country, duty and VAT paid plus transport over thousands of kilometers of African roads. I also did not get when I first came here...Africa is hellish expensive!

Marsh thank you very much for your insights - it is much appreciated. A lot to learn for sure but I am on my way now thanks to you guys.

No worries and I hope I am not coming off as rude but just trying to help out and save you some money. But really your best bet is to call up your Bauer dealer I think you said they are in SA. They are familiar with the difficulties of being in Africa, they know what is easy and hard to get into the country. Also they probably have a lot more knowledge about what system would be best for you then I or most on this forum. They are in the compressor business so just go direct to them and ask.

 

[Angelo Farina]

As already said, you are overthinking it. Your requirement is truly minimal (6 tanks/day) compared to any diving center in the tropics.
In the one I was working (Gangehi, Maldives) we had two Bauer K14 compressors. One electrical, one diesel.
This way we doubled the chance of getting power for at least one of them. Every day I was filling 12-20 tanks. Some day 30. We had a total of 40 tanks, that was our air reservoir.
When you switch tanks you do not stop the compressor, if you are smart enough managing valves and hoses.
So the compressor was working for a continous run of 3h each day.
Which, for a Bauer compressor, is still nothing: those machines are designed for running h24, if needed...
If you like redundancy, as me, buy two smaller units, one electric, the other gas or diesel. Buy some more tanks, so you have two days of diving available before refilling.
And do not worry about wearing out the machines: Bauer compressors are incredibly robust and durable, and you will use them at less than 1/4 of their planned day workload.

 

[Sub100]

@Marsh

Thanks...appreciate the sentiment. Now I say this in jest....you do realise that Bauer South Africa will be trying to sell me a new Mercedes of compressor lol. But I hear you.

@angelo

Again, appreciate the thoughts and help.

I guess I just find it hard to believe that a machine can run so reliably for years without issues - I have had the total opposite experience with other machines over the years. Its a bitch to be caught in a "down" situation out here. Been there, done that and designed the T-Shirt.

You speak some words of wisdom for sure...an electric and a diesel - so one or the other should be available. I do like that idea. One can be mid size the other small. 2 is 1, 1 is none approach.

I will talk to dealers and see what they have to say. But at least I have some ideas now and can have a semi intelligent discussion about it all with them.

 

[Angelo Farina]

Re: reliability: the Bauer Capitan 140 diesel unit I had in Gangehi was quite old. Before being placed on the island it was used for 10 years as a "Dhoni compressor". A compressor placed over a typical Maldivian boat, staying in the wet and in the salt, and I doubt receiving any maintainance. On the dhoni, it was filling 10-15 tanks per days, and it did this job for 10 years.
When we received it at our resort it looked really bad, with evident signs of corrosion and rust everywhere. Nonetheless, we had the valves replaced (or rehauled), a set of new filters installed, an oil change, and it resumed working flawless for the whole season...
It did never stop nor have any problems, and the air was always of perfect quality (we were testing it every day).
Those Bauers were truly indestructible. So, as said, DO NOT WORRY, reliability and long-lasting is not the problem!

 

[Jimbo2]

We have a 2005 Bauer K6Diesel portable compressor 123 hrs on the hour meter, very nice condition, Yanmar diesel, lifting handles and locking wheels that would serve you well in the bush.

 

[bakodiver391]

I have set up air banks on several vessels, but the boats were in the 30m length range. We had specific requirements for the banks, ie, running large boosters for trimix gas blending, filling 14+ sets of steel doubles in a few hours, and providing a secure air source for hyperbaric chamber operations. Absent any of these requirements, I don't see the need for an air bank. As others have said, you don't stop and start the compressor while filling, you swap multiple filling whips between full and empty tanks while the compressor is running.
Remember that while filling an air bank, your compressor is running at the top of its' pressure rating for hours, not like filling individual tanks where it swings from say 175 bar to 225, allowing a chance to cool off a bit at the lower pressure. There is also an inefficiency in pumping air to 250 or 300 bar in a bank then immediately decanting it into empty tanks. This inefficiency will cost you in energy requirements and compressor life.

 

[RayfromTX]

I fill my bank one tank at a time so I allow my compressor to vary it's pressure rather than running at high pressure for hours. Also the point of having a bank is to run it as a cascade to maximize efficiency. I wouldn't give up my cascade for love or money. I can fill almost a dozen tanks before cranking up the compressor.