Dive Xtra Blacktip longevity vs. SUEX

[seahero]

Good day,
Looking at getting a DPV for recreational use only. I intend to use it to make some of the many dive sites more accessible from shore and to be able to explore more of some of our large sites (wall dives).

I am looking at the Dive-Xtras Blacktip Tech and a SUEX XJ-VR or SUEX XJoy 7.

I was about to pull the trigger on the Blacktip when a friend (GUE instructor) informed me that she has heard second hand that the Dive-Xtra models work great for a couple of years then begin to break down and there is little factory support. She recommended the SUEX.

Can anyone verify or refute this info? Personal experience with either brand in terms of longevity and customer support when things do break?

 

[tbone1004]

not sure who from GUE told you that, but the Blacktips haven't existed for "a couple of years" yet so we don't actually know their real longevity. We do know that the Sierra and Cuda's are quite reliable and durable DPV's though.
Also note that GUE/WKPP/Halcyon and Suex have a very long relationship with each other so similar there is likely quite a bit of bias in that statement and why she recommended Suex. They're great scooters, but you do have to understand that it is likely also the only dpv she's ever used and there is a lot of bias from the GUE affiliation.
The most important thing to think about with DPV's these days is the batteries. It was one thing when they were all lead sleds and using standard off the shelf AGM batteries and automotive relays to run. It is a very different discussion now that they are using custom ESC's to control the speeds and custom battery packs. DiveX has gone away from custom packs and gone to DeWalt power tool batteries and that is HUGE for me.

The 7 from Suex is still lead which means it is very heavy for the power and range that it has, but it is cheap with cheap batteries. The VR is lithium, but you're in for a grand when the batteries die. With DiveX, you can go to Home Depot and replace the batteries. With the VR you have to go through a Suex dealer, get it ordered in since they aren't something the dealers stock, and then wait. Your choice, but whether the Suex is a better built scooter or not, the battery discussion needs to weigh heavily into your decision.

You can also look at used Sierra/Cuda's that can be upgraded to the power tool batteries and you should still come out ahead vs a new Suex

 

[seahero]

It should be noted that she was not specifically speaking about the Blacktip, just her impression from second hand info of the Dive-X brand.

I appreciate your response tbone and yes, I am giving the batteries and replacement costs heavy consideration.

 

[Degenerate]

I owned a Suex Xjoy7 up until a week ago.
It was from 2014 so not super old, but the battery (also from 2014) was in pretty bad shape.
I would get about half the burn time on their specs when going on full speed.
The good news is that a new battery only set me back 250 euro which is very cheap when speaking about Suex batteries.
I bought a new battery shortly before selling it and for a rec scooter it was more than enough, the guy who bought mine paid ~1200 euro for it and I feel that he got a very good deal.
For dives in the 40-60 min range it's a very nice entry level dpv if you can find a used one cheap, but if you intend to do multiple dives with it in a day you will need more than one battery.
If I was in the US I would have gone for a Blacktip for my next scooter, but since I'm in Sweden and there isn't a single Dive Xtras dealer here I'll be looking elsewhere for my next one.

The biggest selling point for the Blacktip is the battery system, Dewalt are very unlikely to deviate from their current design, and they definitely have much better resources when it comes to battery tech than any DPV brand does.

 

[rjack321]

Good day,
Looking at getting a DPV for recreational use only. I intend to use it to make some of the many dive sites more accessible from shore and to be able to explore more of some of our large sites (wall dives).

I am looking at the Dive-Xtras Blacktip Tech and a SUEX XJ-VR or SUEX XJoy 7.

I was about to pull the trigger on the Blacktip when a friend (GUE instructor) informed me that she has heard second hand that the Dive-Xtra models work great for a couple of years then begin to break down and there is little factory support. She recommended the SUEX.

Can anyone verify or refute this info? Personal experience with either brand in terms of longevity and customer support when things do break?

I have a 13 or 14 year old DiveX Sierra. It has a newer battery, and has had the shaft seal replaced a few times. But otherwise its a workhorse and just keeps going. Many of the DiveX Echos are also still running and they are even older. The Blacktips have had various teething problems, but by the same token getting Suex service is also almost impossible and insanely expensive.

Your friend has major biases.

 

[nwbrewer]

I have a Cuda that was born around the same time as Rjack's Sierra. I've had the shaft serviced once, and the battery (Ni-Mh) gave up the ghost, so I run Power tool batteries now, but the thing is a beast. As far as service, dive X-tras still supports EVERY scooter they have made. And in some cases supports upgrades to them when they can. I've never had any issues getting support, there is a Dive-xtras FB group, and one of the reps from Dive X comments there often. I'm a little spoiled since I live near the factory, so I can just drop in to buy spares or service kits.

The Blacktips seem to be experiencing some growing pains, but Dive X seems to be pretty responsive with Firmware updates and design fixes as issues arise.

I think you friend is operating on limited information, with a little bias thrown in.

For grins ask her what she thinks about Andrew Georgitsis.

 

[Jack Hammer]

I have an early model DiveX Sierra, still going strong. Also have a Suex XK1. They dont really compare to each other and serve different purposes. Both have been pretty reliable.

 

[maxtrax]

For grins ask her what she thinks about Andrew Georgitsis.

*laughing duckhunt dog*

 

[macado]

The Blacktip has significantly more static thrust than a Suex XJoy 7 or Suex XJ VR. The one thing the VR has going for it is that it has a longer runtime than the Blacktip (150 minutes vs 120 minutes at "cruising speed" of 150ft/minute with the 12Ah Batteries in the Blacktip). You could choose to run the Blacktip slower but the VR does have a larger battery lithium inside. Otherwise the Blacktip mostly wins out here with better speed control, better battery indicator, less weight and more flexible batteries.

The Suex XJ VR in my opinion is better balanced/trimmed out (even compared to Blacktip Tech), has better QA/build quality and a better trigger but I still honestly prefer the Blacktip. I also think Suex latch/locking mechanism is better than the strap closure on the Dive Xtras although having said that I've never had any issues with mine.

The batteries for the Blacktip are also cheaper and you can pick them up at any Home Depot / Lowes / Amazon. I much prefer Dive Xtras' battery model of using mass produced DeWalt batteries compared to the custom lithium packs used by other scooters. Buying multiple sets of batteries becomes cheaper and they are easy to replace if lost or damaged. They are also airline travel friendly. DeWalt makes millions of battery packs a year whereas Suex might make ~200 a year for a particular scooter model.

For reference I own an older recreational XJoy 2 that I got used and I've had a Blacktip since they were released. I've got probably 7-8 hours of trigger time on a VR and conservatively about 40-45 hours of trigger time on a Blacktip. I've also got a decent amount of trigger time on a Suex XJs (XJ37) and a Dive Xtras CUDA 650 but I know you're just talking about the 3 models mentioned above.

I will unfortunately say this about the Blacktip. They've had some firmware glitches and minor hardware issues but Dive Xtras has been very responsive with fixes. Dive Xtras also does have a history of supporting their older scooter models. They're continuing to fix, improve and support the product but I feel like some of us early adopters have been unintended beta testers for the Blacktip platform. When it was originally released the firmware was very buggy and the scooter itself did not trim out at all. They've since provided multiple firmware updates to resolve bugs, allowed people to customize settings on the scooter in the firmware, and have released a "Tech" and "Expedition" model that address the trim issues.

Having said all that I've been very happy with my Blacktip but it has it's limitations. It's a recreational scooter at a great price point that in some cases has better performance than some "tech" scooters. You're not going to get the range/runtime and thrust of more expensive scooters but of course your post mentioned wanting a strictly recreational scooter.

I've done a bunch of 2-2.5 mile (10560ft+) roundtrip dives with the Blacktip. It's not going to compete with a $6000-$8000 scooter but that is not it's market. I feel like a lot of people "poo-pooing" on the Blacktip have some insecurity here that a $2000 scooter can occasionally keep up a "big kid" scooter. Just my observation..

GUE instructors tend to be heavily biased towards Suex scooters. I'm just stating a fact. I think they're very good scooters but they are the current "kool-aid" for GUE instructors, Extreme Exposure is a dealer and Halcyon sells rebranded Suex scooters. They've very much a "uniform" for a lot of GUE divers. Again, they're great scooters and that is one of the reasons why they are so popular but it's not the whole story.

 

[kelemvor]

Dewalt are very unlikely to deviate from their current design, and they definitely have much better resources when it comes to battery tech than any DPV brand does.

The dewalt batteries use 18650 cells and include a custom protection circuit. Dewalt doesn't manufacture the cells. Dewalt does buy quality 18650 cells, so you can count on a dewalt pack to provide the advertised capacity. The protection circuit will prevent overcharging or overdraining or overheating the cells, so unless you let it sit for a very long time unused they should last a while.

They're great for DPV because 1. They're inexpensive (compared to most competitors) for replacement. 2. You can buy them just about anywhere 3. You can take them on airplanes

Diving the cenotes and need new dpv batts (or forgot your charger)? Take a cab over to Ferrotlapaleria Casa Lopez and buy what you need. In the USVI you can get them at GENX on St. Thomas.